Dan Garner: How Nutrition Helps Basketball Players Overcome Performance Plateaus and Become Beasts on the Court
Phil White 00:05
in progress. Okay, well, that's That is progress indeed. So 321 And we're live.
Tim DiFrancesco 00:14
Then tell us a little bit about how you put together fueling nutrition, coaching and diet based direction to either an NBA player or just basketball player in general, because basketball is such a unique sport, compared to many sports. And there's so many requisites physically to it and different energy systems that get used in a single game and a single play even where that it just makes for a unique application a unique requirements set, I have to imagine, right?
Dan Garner 00:48
Yeah, absolutely. And that's why people come to me, man, I'm the I'm the guy who's gonna give you the unique approach. Because the last thing that a professional athlete wants out of me is a totally generic broad stroke for everybody type of approach that that might work to get, you know, your average person fit. But being fit for the average population versus being fit to be an NBA champion are two little different, you can make the argument those are two little different things. So what I used to do, yeah, so what I do is actually as comprehensive as it gets, I'll have full battery of lab analysis on my athletes, everything from saliva, urine, blood, and stool, over 1000. Biomarkers get analyzed, and through questionnaires, all those types of labs, and then I'm able to identify exactly what this athlete needs in order to get through their current, the current plateau that they're currently at, because lots of times that that's why people reach out to it's not always people reach out when they're on top of the world, they definitely do I work with some some athletes that are the the absolute number one in the world. But lots of times athletes reach out in order to get over a plateau or become more resilient, or they're aging in their career. And they want to make sure they get another contract, they're looking to extend their career longevity. So what I essentially do is I'll extract all of this data from them questionnaires, assessments, all the lab profiles, and I'm looking for any type of constraints that are holding them back from becoming the best version of themselves, because that's really the the coaching theory at which I operate. And that's what makes me effective across but NBA, but also things like NHL, UFC MLB, is that a system will perform to the degree that it is constrained. And that's how I view physiology. And that's why I collect all of the data that I collect, because a system will perform to the degree that it is constrained. So you will only ever perform to the level of your constraints. And unless you identify those constraints, you will always be held back by them. And the way I explain it to athletes is it's like a performance anchor. It's like tying a rope around your waist, that has an anchor on the other end of it and then go in and trying to play basketball. So what they'll do is they have this constraint in their life. But since they don't do the in depth lab analysis process, they'll add good things. By the way, things such as meditation, deep breathing, a new sleep ritual, manipulations to volume intensity frequency, they'll add all of these things that would have otherwise got them great results. However, a system only performs to the degree that is constrained. So unless you're able to identify what's holding you back, it could be hormonally, it could be from a micronutrient perspective, macronutrient calories, it could be your training, it could be an entire variety of things. And that is my job as the guy who provides the unique approach for these athletes to identify that constraint. So that's that's really how I operate and what I do, and what I offer any of these kinds of guys who are looking to get past that. And that's type of advice I think any coach could utilize because just like a CEO of a business, a excellent CEO is able to look at a business and not just identify all the strengths in it. But identify the weaknesses, because in the same theory, this is a it's a very widespread theory, the theory of constraint is that a business will only scale to the degree that it is constrained. So if you have if you have bottlenecks in sales, or in marketing or in copywriting or in business systems or in team environment, an excellent CEO is able to look down at the framework of their business, identify the bottlenecks, which represent the constraints holding back their ability to scale the business and once that constraint is removed, a business is able to scale further. In a physiological world. Once a constraint is removed, that system is able to perform better. So I basically get all of that data, sit back, look at the molecular portrait of this athlete, find all the things that they suck at and then corrected Most things, and then their strengths become even stronger.
Tim DiFrancesco 05:03
Wow, what would what would an example case be where you say I've identified a constraint, this is what it is and that you've cleared it or how you would clear it.
Dan Garner 05:15
Okay, so I mean, there would be so many here. But a good example that happens very frequently would be micronutrient status. Many, many athletes, particularly in the professional world, it's assumed by the non professional world that those athletes have their nutrition absolutely dialed in. And lots of times the reverse is true.
05:37
Exactly.
Dan Garner 05:38
You guys noticed that? You can, you can get an unbelievably far distance in your career on genetics and talent, and ability. Like there are some people that are unbelievable, like I worked with an NHL player. And no kidding, this NHL player never did strengthen conditioning in his life until he was forced to when he joined the NHL, and his team never did it once. He got all the way to becoming a professional without training. So like me, I just want not skinny arms, you know, and I'll tell you. So like, just shows you the difference in in prototype that we have. But when you're talking about a professional, but then also a professional who thinks like a professional, and they truly want to get that in that one percenter mentality, somebody who has the ability, but also has the work ethic to match. Those are the people that I meet a lot. And you'd be amazed at how often they have micronutrient depletions because magnesium is a big one, like magnesium is something where up to 50% of the of the US population does not meet the recommended daily intake for magnesium. But it's been well demonstrated in literature that athletes need up to 20% more magnesium than the general population. Because magnesium is depleted through muscular contraction, it's lost in sweat. But magnesium is also metabolized through the production of cortisol. So stress. And now if an athlete just a normal athlete requires 20% More, what does an NBA champion require, the amount of sweat that they have the amount of muscular contractions, the amount of stress that they undergo through social media, but also just game hype, practices, training, they are gone through magnesium like you wouldn't believe so then I've had to I've had the luxury of collecting labs across my career, and basically creating my own KPIs and proxy measurements like okay, well, if I'm going to work with this NBA guy, I know that magnesium needs to be on a different level in order to match his current, total total stress load via B, vitamin B six is another big one very, very, very commonly low in high level athletes. And that's these are just small things that ended up making me look like a genius because the the turnaround that you can get bringing a sub optimal micronutrient up to an optimal status, they start feeling better and like a couple of weeks, and I look at look at Yeah, it's it is that quick it is, and lots of times, that's just when I can prove it, subjectively feeling better, very quickly. And then that's the I end up always, you know, looking super smart, this guy, this guy made me feel so great. And one to two weeks, you gotta go see this guy, but it's just it's, uh, it's pattern recognition. And looking at their diet, looking at their training schedule, and being like, there's no way they've got this, this, this and this, and I'm that lab work comes back in a week, and I'm gonna know it. And we're gonna create a protocol in order to correct that. So that's one of the common ones. But there are many common ones because the physiological and psychological and emotional stress load that these guys are under. It's like, you know, it's a, it's a car that has its get foot to the gas to the floor, we have gas pedals down the entire time. And you got to take care of that machine as it goes, so that it doesn't break down. And these guys are pushing their body like crazy. Yeah, I
Tim DiFrancesco 09:14
love what you brought up there, though, because it is so true. I think people just have this assumption. Well, they're getting paid millions. They made it that far. Part of why they made it that far as they have to have had really good habits all along and their nutrition is gotta be dialed in. Especially because I mean, why wouldn't it be they have access and money to a personal chef, if they want it, they have cooking and Chef providing meals, when they go to their practice facility, every workout, they have post game, everything is all laid out for them. And it's just not always the case. And some athletes do take advantage and they learn and they use the resources around them in that sense from a nutrition standpoint. And many though, you do have this thing I mean, I remember two of our rookies, my first year, Darius Morris and Andrew Ghatak. And I'm happy to say their name. And I've told this story before, and I kind of throw them under the bus a little bit, but they both bounce back and started to make some much better decisions. But it was like they every pregame they just thought it was the best thing that you could just hand a ball boy or ball girl the money like $20 and be and just ask while you're in the locker room games about to tip off in 2030 minutes and hey, grab me a chicken finger french fry basket and hit let me and really for them as they as I tried to figure it out with them in maybe skillfully and maybe not so skillfully, at times, of why are we doing this, and let's make a different decision at this moment in the game of that this moment in a pregame situation. But it was really what they talked about was hey, it just takes me back for the moment. Go into a you games and we'd have games three games in a day. And I'd grab whatever they had at the concession stand. And a lot of times it was chicken fingers and fries. And kind of is this aspect of that's the that and a lot of them say like, Hey, I you I made it this far doing this, trust me, every game I've ever played, I've had this or something like this. So I'm going to be good. And I've proven it over and over again. And what I eventually once I had the relationship to say this with them is like, fair, totally fair. Eventually, though, this shopping spree you're on you're going to have to go to the cash register, and you're they're gonna they're they're going to make you pay. And so your body you can only cheat this system for so long. And maybe some people could do it. Dwight Howard always, you know, the famous thing about how he literally had jugs of skittles within reach from his while he hid from his bed so that while he was waking up in the morning, he could or falling asleep at night, he could reach to a jug of skittles that was filled to the max and and just be snacking on Skittles for breakfast and late night snacks and that kind of thing. And these things. I mean, it is amazing to see and players sort of get in this mentality of it's maybe just part of their routine they look at it'd be weird if I didn't have the chicken fingers, french fries. And that that crutch that they always stand on is hey, I made it this far. I'm pretty I don't want to this made this mate for all I know, this may have helped me to get to that. To this. I don't want to mess with this thing. You even hear otro cinco, talk about on one of the podcasts or the videos he's talked about is he's talking to another football player who had a bunch of injuries. And he's like, man, I was never injured. I was never He wondered, uh, why? Because I eat McDonald's every game and that calloused my body over it was a huge advantage. But these are some of the things that like, that's where their mindset is that and also, by the way, I mean, in my case, I'm working with 1920 21 year olds, who didn't have to be guided in this direction when they played maybe one year of college briefly, and made it to a Final Four and then bounced to go to pre draft camps and that kind of thing. It was like, That wasn't part of the curriculum in that period of time for them or leading up to that so and we all look back at in our 20s, early 20s. Were we making perfect decisions and making all the best decisions for our career and that kind of thing? Probably not. But I love that you brought that up. And I think it's really important to kind of uncover it's just, if anything at that level, you're probably battling steeper sort of curves than you would in other environments, because of all those reasons, for
Dan Garner 13:41
sure, dude, and I like that conversation too, because that's the difference between the art and science of coaching, because it can be very easy to fall in love with the science of coaching because you have objective data in front of you. Like when I know my client's micronutrient status is inflammation status, his his antioxidant status is exact hormones when I know his circadian rhythm when I know all of this stuff, I can create the most scientific plan in the world. But the most scientific plan in the world is useless if the athlete cannot remain consistent to it. That is like the ultimate killer of progress, that consistency beats intensity every single time. And that science doesn't mean a whole lot if there isn't the belief system backing it up. Because one thing I've learned in my career is that belief and buy into a program is as important as the program design itself, that athletes view can think your way out of results if you are not bought into the program. And when it comes to say chicken fingers before the game and fries before the game. That stuff happens a lot. And that's because the athlete athletes, especially at a high level are some of the most superstitious ritualistic people in the world because they find that zone where they're not in a performance slump. and they don't want to touch anything like that's a wrap. There's a there's a hockey player Sidney Crosby has been one of the best hockey players in the world for a long time. And his pregame meals, famously a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. So he would have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And then I could come in there and be like, I hang out here crappy luck, bro. Like, I know, you're the best hockey player in the world. But this is so wrong I
15:25
was you doing man? It's like
Dan Garner 15:27
i i That would be bad coaching. Because scientifically, I can absolutely set him up with a better pregame routine. But that may actually hurt his performance, because I've offset his psychology. And that's like a really important blend that coaches have gotta be the tree that bends with the wind, where you like you said, you said, once I developed the relationship with that athlete, we were able to talk about it. That's so key. Because that athlete you got to get by and you've got to get belief, you've got to get trust, you've got to prove yourself, these things have all got to be in place before a world champion takes your advice on something to change something that they've been doing for the past decade that has otherwise been proven to be quite effective. And yeah, that that whole process has to has to be like this, this beautiful marriage between science and art. And I think that's how you get real results. Because if somebody saw some of the things that I've done, they'd say, Well, hang on, like, is that considered optimal? And I would say no, but we're working our way there. Yes. It's optimal for the current context of the athlete psychologically and physiologically, and then we're going to work our way up there, him and I as a coaching relationship and not a coaching dictatorship, working our way up to the top.
Tim DiFrancesco 16:51
Well, that's right. And it's got to be this layered approach of just making progress not perfect. And there's ceilings in different points on the on the climb for different people that you're saying. My goal with Steve Nash, ultimately was different than my goal with Dwight Howard. And their starting points were very different. And their lenses were very different of why they made nutrition choices and that kind of thing. There's in terms of he's talking about being a dictator based coach type thing. I didn't have to worry about that as much because I had my my muscle was Metta World Peace. So Mata formally run our test would, there was one particular game we were in San Antonio, and there's my rookies, and Andrew gaslog and Darius Morris, and they're ordering the chicken fingers, fries, they were still on the court, and they had ordered them that had the ball person, bring them in to be ready. So they were going to come right off the court after their pregame warmup and have their, their their goods ready. And so sure enough to sit on the table in the middle of the locker room. Players are kind of coming and going and someone's like, Who's Who's are these, like, I don't know, and I'm saying like, I know who they are. And I'm not going to, I'll address it later with them, whatever. And so Metta World Peace comes into the locker room, he's drenched, he just came off of his pregame workout was harder than what most people did in games. And so he comes in he goes, who, Whose are these? And I'm like, you know who they are. That's Andrews and it's ru and Darius and I could hear him coming down they're talking they're coming down the hall and they're about to come in. So right as they come in, he had picked them up and he goes well, they're not anymore and he throws them in the trash as they walk around the corner they watch they watch their pregame meal get dumped to the trash it's like no no no no and I just know I I'd be lying if I didn't say I got a little bit of a chuckle out of it. But I had Metta World Peace as my muscle and of course like you said not maybe the best strategy to create a long term coaching player relationship type of thing but player to player and teammate to teammate that was met as approach on that. And one that I'll always remember the look on their faces when they watch that their chicken fingers and fries hit the hit the garbage can be Yeah,
Dan Garner 19:12
yeah. You don't need a whole lot of science to change your opinion when Matt is in your face. Yeah.
19:20
Exactly. Exactly.
Phil White 19:23
It's really funny when you talk about different career stages TD and and down I know from our conversations offline without mentioning any names, you know, among the NBA players that you're working with is somebody that's late in their career, a multi time NBA champion, multi time all star and numerous other accolades and somebody that's maybe looking to extend their career by a couple of years and get get their team back to that the top of the mountain so we have somebody like that. Obviously, it's a little bit different than these 1920 year old rookies getting their their concession stand fodder in before they go in And the motivation is different and and they've obviously more apt that Steve Nash and that TD experience with Steve Laker. So talk to us a little bit about with a player like that that is one squeeze just about everything out of a pro career that somebody could, but now is kind of looking at, alright, is it going to have to happen this offseason kind of get a year or two, maybe three or four out of this. And maybe the plateau is a bit different to what maybe some of these younger guys are experiencing?
Dan Garner 20:30
Yeah, I actually love working with this population, because with experience comes your old tricks, and you become a lot more efficient where you don't need as much as that of that young raw tenacity. Maybe as he used to have you just, I see it a lot in the fight world a lot too. Like there's always those hungry young lions, but then they come in and they make a mistake against the vet. And if you make one mistake, you're done. And those guys, they've just seen too many same pattern recognition. So I actually like working with those populations a lot. And a lot of it is kind of like the the example I said previously where they've had the gas pedal to the floor for the last 20 years. So my job is just to make sure that that car doesn't fall apart for the next five. That's that's really all that I'm after. And the physiologic resilience is something that that is beginning to wane when you're young. And you guys know this, like I did some of the stupidest workouts when I was 18. You know, 1920, especially when I was like 1415 Sick workouts that would just wreck my joints and destroy me for like a week now. But I could get away with a daily at that age because you're just an animal and you're extremely resilient. But as you get older that resiliency begins to wane. And that's why when I when I actually like I said I look at that molecular portrait of athletes. It is it is a Wade system. It's an algorithm. So it's not something I'm guessing what what I'm basically doing is I'm looking at the total stress load that's being applied to that athlete. Medically speaking, this is something known as allostatic load allostatic load represents the total stress load of all types in coming to one physiology. So whether it is a physical, environmental, psychological, emotional, or perhaps a physiological something within an internal chemistry system, that allostatic load is all of the stressors that are incoming on one's physiology. And Aloe stasis is the brain's way to adapt to that total stress load. So it will raise some things in physiology it'll lower other things in physiology, it is always looking to leverage upon one organ system to the next in order to become maximal compensators. And that's really what a professional athletes are, they are masters at compensation, they can have a say weakness in hamstring, but then their bodies are so weird that they can compensate and still move super athletically, they can have a weakness in the core still compensate and move athletically. What people don't know is that their internal physiology is compensators. To zones that you'll see actually testosterone remaining elevated in states of stress that other physiologies wouldn't accept, you'll see things like DHEA remaining elevated despite years of stress being ripping down this athlete, you'll see a lot of compensations with respect to organ systems like these physiologies Their one percenters not just from the outside in but also from the inside out. So when I look at their all of their labs, and I collect all of their assessments and questionnaires, what I'm doing is basically quantifying three things. And this is done with Dr. Andy Galpin, which I'm sure you guys are familiar with. So we will quantify visible stressors, these are the things that are on the surface that are, you know, obvious might not be the right word, but they're things that we can see. So like, if you're not following your diet, it's obviously holding you back. If you're not hydrated, it's obviously holding you back. If you have psychological emotional stress, you're not sleeping well. Like these are all visible things that we can see. And then we quantify and qualify those in your physiologic profile. Then next, we will look at the block of HIDDEN stressors. So visible stressors is done. Now we're looking at HIDDEN stressors, so things you never see until you look underneath the hood. Like people don't even get blood work done once a year, let alone get blood, urine, stool, saliva, sweat, they don't get all of this stuff analyzed and measured. So then that's when I come in and I'll look at electrolyte status micronutrients says antioxidants, inflammation, hormone, microbiome, you name it, absolutely. Everything is covered in the hidden stressor category. And then finally, we're looking at recovery capacity, and that's when you know why I'm speaking objectively about things like resilience, because this is all quantified in hear as well. So all, you know, long story, you know, long answer told long. I've got visible stressors, HIDDEN stressors, recovery capacity. It's just quantified and qualified per individual athlete that I'm working with. And then through that I'm able to identify the constraints that they currently have, when it comes to older athletes to turn back around to the answer this question very often something as a root cause of inflammation and something as a root cause of a hormonal disruption. Because as an older athlete, as an athlete becomes older, certain markers for overtraining, like there's a few. There's not many markers that are known in true evidence that are reflective of overreaching and overtraining. But TNF alpha is one and il six is one, so is testosterone and cortisol, as well as testosterone cortisol ratio. So you'll see actually, these markers are TNF alpha and il six, which are inflammatory by the way, they will tend to rise and these guys who have been in the game a long time, and then you will also see things such as testosterone begin to fall, and a stress hormone named cortisol begin to rise. And this just as a solo would have happened to a normal person 15 years ago, but to these risk, resilient physiologies It's a slow burn. But now that heightened inflammation is causing blood sugar control dysregulation, which can bring down there energy in games, heightened inflammation can also increase joint pain during game. So you start to feel old, in that sense, because you don't have the energy you used to. And also you're in more pain than you're used to. And then also with lower testosterone, you might lack that grit, that that metta, world peace, throw in your frickin pregame meal in the garbage. That type of grit that comes from optimal alpha male testosterone, and that can slowly degrade over time. So my job regardless of the age of the athlete, but specifically when it comes to L, older athletes, I typically find these patterns is not this would be an amateurs move. And amateur would say, hey, what can I do to lower inflammation? What can I do to increase testosterone? That's like, that's the amateurs approach. My approach is always Why is inflammation low? Let's address that at the root cause level. So physiologic ranges can get back to the where they're supposed to be. And also, why is testosterone low, because there's a host of reasons why it can be low. So instead of taking an herb to, or TRT, or whatever, to artificially enhance it for a certain period of time, I want to address it at the root cause level, because what I'm seeing is not a reflection of their optimal self. And that's because it's riddled with constraints. So I come in there and remove that identify the root causes solve inflammation, solve testosterone, all sudden, that athletes moving better, and they have a better hormonal profile, so they can recover from hard training. So that's like, that's what's gonna get that career longevity out of that athlete. And it's true career longevity, because I saw that the root cause level and didn't give them a symptom based band aid to lower inflammation, that would work acutely, but not for another contract.
Tim DiFrancesco 28:18
Let's talk about testosterone specifically. And it's not just that you look for that in male athletes, either you have to look at those levels, male or female, and kind of how maybe the differences there, but also, what are some of the what are some of those root causes, you tend to find that, that really key important. Hormone is is sort of being undermined by
Dan Garner 28:46
Sure. So there's a few things I think probably the most relevant one would be offsetting any, any kind of incoming stressor. So to you know, I keep bringing up stressors, but it's so often the case with these level with this high level of an athlete, because the stressor thing is so important, because cortisol is a stress hormone it but again, any form of stress is reactant. So again, I'd be an amateur to say, Oh, they've got high cortisol. Let me lower cortisol. I've been the answer that if there's not the answer is a question. Why is cortisol high to begin with? Let me answer that, and then I'll be able to reestablish cortisol to healthy homeostatic levels. And that's relevant for testosterone because testosterone runs antagonistic with cortisol. So anytime cortisol is high, testosterone is going to be low. That is an antagonistic relationship that has been developed through million years of evolution because that stress response and a time our body undergoes a stressor, we still have hardwired DNA processes that represent the idea that stressors are life and death. So back in the day, a stressor meant you had a saber toothed tiger in front of you. Or it meant that some another tribe was invading your tribe and meant real real fight or flight things. And biology. You know, we have to biology answers a lot of this stuff because we love testosterone, because it is a is something that allows us to get bigger, stronger, recover faster, be more competitive. That's the reason why we love it. But from a pure biological standpoint, it is a reproductive hormone, it is in us so that we can spread the seed and continue our species on forward. It is a part of the reproductive system, and it is a reproductive hormone. And that's the difference. And that's why that antagonistic relationship exists because high stressor means low reproduction. Why? Because if you got a saber toothed tiger in front of your face, it's probably a bad idea to have sex with your girl. DNA has hardwired that into the guys who didn't have that hard wiring, they're gone. The selection process already killed off those guys. But what survived was okay, if there is a stressor in front of us, survival of the organism is more important than acute reproduction. So we are going to not produce testosterone. And we're going to use these resources in all cases to drive this stress response. So we can deal with the stress response and then reestablish homeostasis once the stressor is gone, but in modern society, I mean, between social media between traveling for games between having pregame anxiety between having a bad diet, so you're not really recovering from your gains and workouts, you can you can run into a scenario where you absolutely have a chronically, chronically high stressor. And I identify stressors from a hidden perspective all the time, whether it be due to a gut health issue, or an inflammatory problem, whatever it's going to be. So guys can have chronically high cortisol, and it's not that they have low testosterone, it's that they have high cortisol. So then again, that's the constraint. So I have to go in and say, Okay, well, testosterone is low due to the existing allostatic load of physiology, the current stress load of physiology. So let me take a step back and not just look at, okay, testosterone is low, what's a new supplement I can give him I heard, you know, I heard ubermann, talk about Tomcat Alia heard hear men talk about increases testosterone. Yeah, that's true. Absolutely. But that's also a bandaid. In this example, my job would be to identify the stressor and remove the stressor so that testosterone can reestablish itself where it's supposed to be. And that's kind of that's like, my job. And coaching is really like, if you don't meet me again, then I've done my job. Because instead of creating body transformation, I've created life transformation, I've removed the constraint that's held you back. Now you're kicking ass again, period. And that's usually what it is when it comes to testosterone is people just don't know where their stressors are, because they never look under the hood in their physiology.
Tim DiFrancesco 33:19
Right, right. I love that I love the fact that you're going to you're not just trimming the weeds off the surface at the grass level, you're you're digging the roots out and and you're getting them out from the roots. When you take that approach, do you then at times, have to once you've sort of remove that constraint found that root of why this testosterone is low or why this cortisol is high. And you then are there food based or non food based and not meaning supplements, but behavior changes that can allow you that you then have to say, Well, I did remove the constraint. But I do want to go in and turn this dial up a little bit and maybe get a little boost at this very moment just to get that, that balance back and that kind of thing. I guess the question I'm getting at is, I'd love to understand if there's food, real food not not necessarily supplement based strategies that you can or items that you have used to help people address low testosterone or or high cortisol. And then are there behavior based things because outside of that, I think a lot of people just think, well, the only way to get testosterone up is I've got to text big hurt to Frank Thomas and hope to get my order of the unnamed pills that will come in the mail.
Dan Garner 34:43
Yeah, so I mean, supplemental strategies are something I use, but it's something I use because I have labs like, like, if you get an enormous supplement protocol from someone who hasn't done labs on you, then that's kind of that's it's pretty risky because there's feet back loops for everything. And the reason why I use supplementation as frequently as I do, is because when you collect over 1000 biomarkers on someone, you know exactly what they need, and just as importantly, exactly what they don't need. And so I will use that supplement strategy, really as a sniper rifle. If somebody gives you a protocol without labs, then that's kind of like a shotgun approach. They're hoping that somewhere in the spray, they got that target, right? When when you have labs in that shotgun turns into a sniper rifle. And I'm just able to see I'm like, That's my guy right there. That's my constraint. Let's rock and roll. So that that's the way in which I use supplements. It's very controlled, and there's no dates. It's not like take this forever. Got it? So yeah, that's definitely my approach. And when it comes to food, yeah, 100%, you need to have your calories in check, you need to have your macronutrients in check your food sources should be of high quality as well, the supplements are supplements because they supplement your diet today, they're absolutely not the only thing you need. Sometimes they're beneficial, because like you said, and we agree that lots of times pro athletes, nutrition is not always the best. So adding in a shaker, adding in some pills here, and there is this strategy that can be easily implemented by even some of the most, you know, resilient clients in terms of adherence to program design. And, you know, with with an athlete like that, instead of all or nothing, it should be always something, just slowly add in a little bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more, until he gets to his optimal. And typically, when you get to optimal, you never turn back, you feel so much better. And then they're like, I wish I was doing this all along. That always happens. And it usually happens to the older guys. Once they're mature enough to understand that this stuff really helps. Then they say, I wonder where I'd be if I did this when I was 20. I wonder where I'd be if I did this when I was 16? That conversation always happens. But yes, so like to answer your question. My programs, yes, I use labs, yes, I use supplements. But I always also create three meal plans for them based on food, then the three meal plans to go like this optimal, sufficient, convenient, hmm, all three of them have the identical calories and macros. The difference, though, is optimal is also micronutrient controlled. So based on the labs, I know the exact amount of macronutrients you need, and I'm using whole food as my vehicle to get that job done. So optimal follow optimal as often as you can. And when you can't follow the sufficient plan, this efficient plan is still you know, if optimal was an A plus the sufficient plan is still an A like it's still right there. It just provides way more flexibility because the optimal I am cutthroat, it's like no, I don't want you to have an orange, I want you to have two dates, okay, no, I don't want you to have a broccoli, I want you to have asparagus because you have a V six issue. So like, then that's hyper hyper specific is optimal. So where an optimal plan may say, six ounces of ground turkey, with one cup of quinoa and one cup of asparagus, that would be an optimal plan, just as an example, sufficient plan would say six ounce lean meats, one cup starchy carb, one cup greens. So you're getting the identical calories and macros, you just have the flexibility depending on what city you're on, or if you're just tired of the optimal plan. Because again, not all or nothing, always something keeping that mentality. That's the sufficient approach. And then the convenient approach is for the days when you're super busy, or just on the road. And that's when I'll provide something that is easily transportable, but micronutrient equivalent. So something like if it has to be 30 grams of whey, one fruit and a quarter cup of raw nuts or something like that, something that you can put in any bag and take anywhere with you and eat with no problem at all. But still hit your calories and macros and still do it in a pretty efficient way. So that's the approach I take, you get all your labs, you get your full protocol, and then you get your optimal sufficient convenient approach. And then no matter what day it is, you're going to be able to follow one of those. That's that's always going to be the case and you can also mix and match so if your optimal meal one and two, but then you have to do sufficient for three and convenient for four but then you can go back to optimal for your pre bed meal five, you could do It's like a It's a bullet proof system because it removes the excuses of the athlete is you just you always have an approach no matter what. Well,
Phil White 39:39
yeah, TD that brings up an interesting point of on the road right so what are some of your either D league now G league or MBA experiences with regard to nutrition on the road? I see you shaking your head there. So I'm guessing there's a lot of these stories but pick one brother.
Tim DiFrancesco 39:58
My favorite one is One one season in the D league now it's the G League. We fly into Portland, Maine, on Christmas Eve, and flight got delayed on the layover. And so I had this restaurant setup for where we were going to get dinner, but it's Christmas Eve they were closing earlier than normal. And our timing of getting to Portland was just way beyond when they were willing to stay open for us. So it's like a ghost town at this point. And so the next thing I know we're we've circled the main area strip area around where our hotel was, and I'm driving one of the bands are coaches driving another man and players are just they've been traveling all day, they had a game yesterday. Everybody's grouchy, they're tired there were exhausted, they're starving. And so the next thing I know, we've got an entire NBA D league team in a 711 lining up microwaving one at a time and getting back to the end of the line to get another one beef and bean burrito frozen burritos at a 711 until we cleared out the freezer and then went through every other aisle that they add of readily available anything that we could find. And that's where we had. That's where we had our Christmas eve dinner that year together as a team and a 711. But that that was a that one I'll just never forget, we all kind of just step back and we're like, we have to laugh about this. Otherwise we're gonna cry.
41:32
That's amazing.
Dan Garner 41:35
These stories people don't think they exist with these. I my mind isn't nearly as amazing is that I was working with an NFL player. And because of the sponsorship at the team, he had two options for food on the plane two options. And I was like I was trying to optimize it was actually one of my earlier athletes like what, like one of my first maybe 10 or 20 pro athletes. So I was like, like, okay, get on the phone. We got to really optimize this stuff. Right? Okay, I've got two options. I've got fried chicken or spicy fried chicken. And then I'm not joking. I'm not joking. He went Hello.
42:15
Because I was like, What are
Dan Garner 42:21
ya so that was my that was my range my optimization range. Chicken or spicy fried chicken? Oh
42:28
my gosh, is amazing. Oh, man. Yeah, I
Tim DiFrancesco 42:33
think and that's the thing where you brought up the PB and j's and I briefly tried to kind of put my flag in the sand on on seeing if a better way of, of doing things pregame. But you start messing with some of these things too. And rather than saying, all right, we got to get rid of the PB and j's and I'm gonna put a nice deli spread out with different lean meats, some healthy cheeses and some good probiotic based pickles and things like that is we can do that. But then we can keep the regular old Wonder Bread and Skippy peanut butter and Smuckers jam. But we can also add these PB and J's that are going to be made with a natural peanut butter, we can add a sprouted grain bread, we can add some different jellies that are lower sugar, and you know what the players that are going to and the athletes that want to make those choices, at least it can be there for them. And the other part that you brought up that's so important is you just you don't need every player to be going for the sprouted bread and the natural peanut butter you need on a case by case basis. Is there a better decision instead of having the wonderbread with the Skippy and the overloaded Smuckers jam? And also Washington sat down with a Coca Cola? Why don't you keep your PB and J It obviously means a lot to you. But let's just do like a kombucha drink if you'd be willing to test that out. And maybe we get you like a little yogurt on the side. So there's something happening there for you in other ways, and you start to have these, what ended up being really big victories because like you said, if you start to introduce even even hedging towards a micronutrient that is been so low for so long, and you start to introduce things that they're like, Yeah, I can do this. I can put this into my, my regular and I'll make this happen. And then all of a sudden, it's like, just, it's that that deficiency is just craving and just kind of sucks it up really fast and you can make a difference. Can you go back on the magnesium thing and just talk about because it is such a common one? Why it's such an important mineral for athletes specifically but also some things that you might work with somebody on to say, Hey, these are some places where you can you can get at besides just besides the obvious sort of supplement form,
Dan Garner 44:58
for sure and at But before I answer that magnesium thing, I think that if you had a healthy table, and then the Wonder Bread and Skippy table, just put meadow crossing his arms. That's it, you can go that but you have to walk by him.
45:16
Definitely, definitely
Dan Garner 45:19
adherence. If the team suddenly skyrockets and they get an NBA championship,
45:23
no doubt, no doubt.
Dan Garner 45:26
But yeah, for real with magnesium, that's something that's, that's real key. And a lot of guys, and lots of times too. It's not what you say the athlete, it's what they hear. So the the, the way in which you explain it has to be relevant to them, because I can talk to you guys about inflammation, il six, and then they'll say, yep, coach, yep. But like, they don't like that, that's not going to, okay, he said nothing about basketball. So, he said nothing about my current pain points. Like, I don't, he sounds like he knows what he's talking about. But who cares like that. It's not what you say to the athlete, it's what they hear. That's something that's so key. And magnesium is something that is extremely relevant here. Because it drives and is, is involved in both a aerobic and anaerobic energy production. So I'll assess magnesium status. Every time I work with a with a pro athlete, and what they don't, what I love to do is actually I shoot videos for them. And what I'll do is show them how, when you have a carbohydrate, and we'll even use like, and I won't laugh, like I say, like when you're having your pregame fries and chicken fingers, right, your fries are coming in, and those forms of carbohydrates already got sodium in it. So you're getting electrolyte status right there. And then here's what's missing, though. You see right here in this diagram, where you've got circulation, right, you can just think about that like like a vein, right? That's your circulatory system. This right here, that's your muscle. So in order for that carb to go into your muscle, so you can perform better out in the court that requires magnesium every single time. Just for a carb to enter the muscle cell, that process alone requires magnesium. And then you need magnesium, again, to convert that carb into something called ATP, which is energy. So magnesium is used twice to convert your pregame meal into energy that you're using on the court. So to put it another way, that card is only useful if you have the magnesium to utilize it. Because if you don't have that magnesium, you may not actually have bad conditioning, you may have a magnesium deficiency, this happens, you may think I gotta run more laps with Coach, I got to do a conditioning program, I got to do this and that maybe not, maybe you just lack magnesium. And if you do not have enough magnesium in your system, you could be the most conditioned athlete in the world. But you're being held back by the constraints of your magnesium status, once we improve your magnesium that is going to improve your energy transfer from pregame meal to in game performance. So do you want to get on your magnesium? All right, let's rock and roll.
48:13
So sign me up, sign up
Dan Garner 48:17
exactly how we do it. And then like there are It depends. And then also like if this guy said that he's low, he's maybe he's not as competitive, he's losing his energy. I could also show him that magnesium is a rate limiting step like in testosterone production limiting and there's you can these diagrams are out there these are all by biochemical known biochemical mechanistic pathways. And I can say hey, you know, right here, this if this magnesium is not here, you are not able to convert this fat into testosterone. So you actually may have way higher testosterone than you're actually allowing your body because of your current magnesium status, is that going to bring up my energy coach is that going to help me recover better and be stronger 100% Man, it had nothing to do with you. By the way, this is another coaching thing, it's not your fault. None of this is your fault, your process is fine. This is what what my job is to identify this little thing once you bring this magnesium up, you're gonna allow your process to maximize itself and then that all of that you can you can use that that with any mineral like I use magnesium and came up with two right away, you know, aerobic and anaerobic energy production and testosterone. Try and not get an NBA athletes attention with those examples.
Tim DiFrancesco 49:27
Right? Well, we'll open up double click on aerobic versus anaerobic and why that energy systems and how you've now just sort of uncovered that for a lot of us that magnesium has huge impact on those energy systems. But why? what that exactly means in terms of aerobic and versus anaerobic and why that's very, very important for a game like basketball.
Dan Garner 49:49
Yeah, for sure. So when you have an excellent a robic base, that's actually one of the prime goals in basketball because the more aerobic I can be at a high intensity, the less fatigue byproducts I'm going to produce. So whenever if I can push my A robic power up to a higher level, and it's like a lot of a lot of people don't people want to win, they want to do conditioning, they always want to sprint, they just want to go pure anaerobic the entire time the entire time. But the more often you spend in an anaerobic state, the more fatigue byproducts you're going to produce. So the goal is to actually be in an anaerobic state less often as possible by pushing aerobic power up. So if I can move at, whatever, 12 miles per hour here and stay aerobic, but if I'm an anaerobic debt, dominant athletes, and then my aerobic thresholds way down here, and I'm going to be moving at the same speed, but producing way more fatigue byproducts, then that's something that's going to fatigue me dramatically as an NBA athlete, so my aerobic base needs to be high, which means I need many actually micronutrients in order to be optimal here. But then I'm also going to need magnesium again, once I finally get through that anaerobic threshold and continue to go on about that basketball game, the basketball, you it's like nonstop action for an extremely long period of time, which means your aerobic power and aerobic capacity has to be high. And then when you need to do those hard drives, that's when you're going to dip into your anaerobic energy systems. And both of those require magnesium. Not to mention, a lot of athletes cramp up. And if if you guys pretend that you guys had a dead frog in front of you right now, okay, if you sprinkled salt on that dead frogs legs, his legs are going to start to twitch. And that's because salt causes muscular contraction, you'll see it in Japanese cuisine, they pour soy sauce on tentacles and tentacles start moving around like crazy. I don't know why that's I don't know why that's advertising. But it happens. But if you if you have that dead frog and his legs are twitching from the salt, if you sprinkle of potassium on his legs, his legs are actually relaxed. That's because salt is required for muscular contraction. And potassium is required for muscular relaxation. And that's key because that sodium is going to drive maximum velocity and that vertical power that basketball players Yeah, but potassium is also required. Because what's a contraction without a relaxation? It's a crap, you're going to be cramped up, where most people forget, though, is magnesium to actually travel back to a previous example. Magnesium is right on the outside of that cell lining. And magnesium determines intracellular, and extracellular concentrations of both sodium and potassium. Even if your diet is optimal for sodium and potassium, you will have electrolyte imbalances if magnesium is not optimal, and electrolyte imbalances lead to fatigue dramatically, but they also lead to a ton of cramps and athletes as well. So you could continue to just keep convincing this athlete. And that's another example that you could use for magnesium, you're getting hamstring cramps, you're getting calf cramps, and you're getting is this holding you back it again, it's not it's not what you tell them, it's what they hear. So you would drive that pain point magnesium for testosterone, magnesium. If you want it to say, for all game energy, then it would be magnesium for the aerobic system. If you if they needed that anaerobic drive and that anaerobic vertical power, then I would go over the magnesium biochemical pathway to drive anaerobic power and capacity. Or if they continue to get cramps, I would use magnesium as my coaching tool to get them to drive more adherence. So we get less Krantz from it. You you use, you use science and art to drive maximum results. And it's just using the right tool at the right time. But just as importantly, vocalizing it to them in the right way. So they truly hear you.
Phil White 53:52
So good. Yeah. What is something you touched on earlier? That seems to be key for athletes and just humans in general? Whatever our our pursuit of choice is, is sleep slash slash circadian rhythm. Can you dive into that a little bit for us down?
Dan Garner 54:13
Sure. Yeah. So I mean, optimizing your sleep. If you want to play the most boring game in the world, try and find an area of performance that's not impacted by sleep. You'll never ever win that game. If it's strength, coordination, recovery, hormone status, running into you know, overreaching status early. All of these things are connected to sleep. And a lot of it has to do again, you know, I don't know why I keep bringing up cortisol but it is something that's, that's been relevant in a lot of our topics here. Remember, previously when I was talking about how cortisol has an antagonistic relationship with testosterone, it also has an antagonistic relationship with inhibitory neuro chemicals and hormones. So in liberatory meaning calming down, allowing us to kill nighttime chatter in our brain allowing us to like really just not have that smooth ride into falling asleep and staying asleep. A lot of those things that help that ride are inhibitory because we're supposed to calm down. GABA, serotonin, melatonin, like GABA is something you want to optimize if there's a lot of anxiety before bed. And then from a pure sleep science perspective, serotonin puts you down, but melatonin keeps you down. So if somebody has problem falling asleep, that's a different issue than somebody has a problem staying asleep. And if somebody has anxiety, I'm going to be leaning towards a different direction. But again, none of these things really matter until I identify what's going on with the root cause. And cortisol has an antagonistic relationship with all things inhibitory. Why? Because if there's a saber toothed tiger in front of you, it's probably a bad time to fall asleep. It's really It's biology's It's got our back. If you see somebody that's gonna kill you, in front of you, you don't just kind of roll over and be like,
56:03
tomorrow, tomorrow, deal with it later.
Dan Garner 56:06
Yeah, exactly. Those guys are gone. Yeah. And we need to learn from that. So lots of times when it comes to this circadian rhythm thing. It's too much excitatory activity, and not enough inhibitory activity. So that's why you see anything parasympathetic, dominant, getting really popular these days, like certain breathing, drills, meditation, journaling, and anything that you could do to kind of create the sleep ritual in sequence as the night goes on to to become inhibitory rather than excitatory. But if you have a stressor, that is physiologic, like something where that that is lab based, and, and and that's keeping you up at night, then you do have to do labs. And that happens a lot. By the way, if somebody is like, Hey, guys, I am doing a breathing routine. I am meditating, and I sleep like crap. And then I sleep even worse when I'm on the road, like, what what can I do? What should I do? It's like the first thing I always asked one last time you did labs? I didn't, okay, well, then let's look. Because if you have a sleep ritual, and that's not working, well sleep is so acutely detrimental to your career, that we have to address it right now. Because if your sleep sucks, we have to address it right now. And something is excitatory. And it's keeping you up. And if you're offsetting all of your inhibitory neurotransmitters and hormones, then those are the things that are going to allow you to actually recover. That's the difference, like sympathetic is fight or flight. Parasympathetic is rest and digest. We want to be as parasympathetic dominant as possible, off the court, I want you as sympathetic as possible on the court, and in training, I want you to be that animal. But in order to be the animal, you also have to recover like an animal or else you'll never jump on the cord like an animal. So that's another thing I'll say to athletes is if you recover 80% before your next game, how well they think you're gonna perform, you're gonna perform to 80% of your ability already. No, I'll tell you, because we're you will perform to the degree that you are recovered. This sleep is killing you right now. So we got to do labs and identify why that inhibition is not taking place.
Phil White 58:25
Really interesting. TD, what are your observations, both in the D league in the NBA in terms of sleep and media, it comes back to Dan's three meal plan options, you know, we've convenient being kind of the bottom rung, but that still, you know, getting us pretty much where we need to be there. And obviously, how do you try to you as Andy always says, Write down you can't always be optimizing. So TD, what did you see in terms of pro basketball on the road and sleep?
Tim DiFrancesco 58:56
Yeah, it's really hard. Because I think in terms of time of games, for instance, a lot of times those games are not getting over until 1011 o'clock, even later, at times at night. And so you don't just sort of, although you're exhausted, you're also you're also really energized. And you're also just really ramped up after a game. And it's not as easy as just saying, even if you don't play the game, I always found it very hard to get into a city at 2am After we just played in another city, left that city at 11pm and got to the city and got to the hotel room at 2am and say okay, I just walk in, I put my bag down and I just drop off to sleep. It's you you may have been just working your face off getting trunks to the bus and onto the airplane off the airplane and into the hotel room. And you just also worked or if you were a player played in the whole game, and then we're doing all this stuff. We're checking bags, if you're on the staff side of things that I was on, and you're doing all that stuff. And finally, you get to your hotel room, and it's like, okay, I got to wind down a little bit here. So I think one of the things that Dan talked about earlier and pointed out was just this, what's what's your routine and, and finding a routine that allows your body to see these checkpoints and then start to recognize, and they're really all headed in this direction of the dimmer switches is being turned to where we're dialing down your body can recognize these things, these behaviors, these, these choices, versus saying, Okay, I'm gonna get to the hotel room, I might pop down to the hotel bar, have a couple of beers, I might go, kind of laugh and, and chat and have a bunch of tell a bunch of stories with, with friends and that kind of thing. And, or have a big phone call with a family member that I've got to plan what I'm going to do in my off day, and all this other stuff and do these things or try to do stuff on your phone or try to whatever it is. And so you kind of have, you just don't want to be sending mixed signals into your body in that process and also mixing up what the routine is. So if you're getting to a new city, it's just very hard because you have different players who have different ways of what they're used to, to wind down and different players, if we finish a lot of players. And this is, I think, surprising to people. If they go well. I clicked the game off at 1005. So I could probably fall asleep in the next hour cool. I'm getting to bed by 11. That player didn't get out of the shower until 11 After the game and then they flew to another city, they change the timezone they had some food on the plane, they're probably a little hungry still, because there wasn't something that they wanted on the plan, they want to order room service, they gotta talk, call their wife real quick and let them know all as well. And I'll talk to you in the morning. And that kind of thing. And oh, they had a terrible game and one coach is texting him, I want to meet early so we can go over the film in the morning. And they're stressing about that. So all that just happened. And now you're looking at 2am real fast. And that's even if you're at home, and not traveling in between all that and that's where then 2am can turn to 4am really fast when you're scrolling on Instagram, and you're trying to wind yourself down. And that feels like that's what that's doing. But it's it's not. And so that's the thing that you honestly and I learned this really fast is I realized that my bedtime was even being in that environment was later than I would want it to be. But it wasn't what those players were because they were having to go through all those things and then wind down from the physical side too. And they were easily normal, regular bedtime to the 4am That was like standard ops for them. And, and so then there's a nine o'clock meeting team meeting in the ballroom, if we're on the if we're on the road, or then if you're at home, you've you've got, you've got kids and it's like well, I got myself finally to bed as a player two to 4am kids are getting up to go to school. And when I'm home, my job is to take kids to school. So at 8am I'm popping up out of bed and I'm dragging myself but I got to do it. It's my kids and it's my day, I get to be with them and I love that but all these things go into into play with them that I don't think when you click the game off that you watched that 1005 You probably realized how hard it is to kind of create that habit that gets changed. It's always what I would say is it's like my body and this is me not playing felt like a snowglobe my clock my internal clock and everything just felt like a snowglobe and every day somebody was just kind of tipping it and shake giving it a shake and do it again. Do it again.
Phil White 1:04:00
Yeah, Damn, it's
Dan Garner 1:04:01
that's, that's the art of coaching, right? There's not always optimal just doing as much as you can in that situation to optimize it.
Phil White 1:04:11
Yeah, what are some? Just some overall advice down I mean, obviously, we hear a lot about avoiding blue light, like TV said, maybe keep that phone out of reach, particularly if you have if you have the socials on there if you're not doing the candy cane thing and just go Going off of it as we probably all should be. Just yeah, what are some just without having the labs just some generic lifestyle advice to counter what TD is talking about? And maybe if it isn't even a pro athlete, you know, just somebody that has to either get up and work earlier than that their body clock might be you know designed for or work later sometimes or that you know, a bit in your case a new baby in the house what what are some things just kind of global recommendations on the sleep front?
Dan Garner 1:04:57
Global recommendations are probably things a lot of the listeners have already heard of, because global means sleep super popular. So I think meditation is something that can absolutely help wind you down and center your thoughts. Before bed, it really helps remove that whole nighttime chatter. Any type of breathing routine is certainly beneficial as well. I'm a part of X pt. And they've got they've got an app called X PT life, they've got lots of meditations and breathing routines on there. And that's like, one of the things I like actually is like a good breathing routine, because this it's well established and scientific literature that deep breathing is activates your parasympathetic nervous system really like like, like a light switch. So if you can, you can move from sympathetic to parasympathetic, with excellent deep belly breathing going through a routine. And why I like that say for like, the the context that is provided in the NBA is because you're not dependent upon your environment now, because it's sometimes like if you have this great routine, where you can go to sleep, but it's gonna has to be a home game or something like that, then then you're dependent upon environmental cues that aren't representative of most of your games. So then what are you going to do when you are at an away game, you can run into a dangerous scenario where you slap labels on yourself, or like, I don't get a good sleep, if I can't do this, and then you live that truth. And then you live a worse truth to because then you're like, I'm not productive unless I'm at home. And then like, you can really wreck your productivity for the day, you can wreck how you fit the physiology follows psychology, that's something that's so true, if you believe something, your physiology is going to match it and slapping labels on yourself is so detrimental, and it makes you the opposite of resilient, like it makes you a weakened version of yourself. So yeah, it makes you fragile, you you if you need to have a certain light, if you need to have a certain sound on to sleep, if you need to have a certain blanket, if you if you need a lot of things, then you're that much more fragile. And I would actually hope that my opponents were incredibly ritualistic. Because then if only one thing throws them off, I will crush them. And that's what I want, I would want my opponents to be as ritualistic and as dependent upon environmental cues and things as possible, because that makes them that much weaker. Like I like to think that I could sleep on a cot, and then still wake up the next day and do a podcast like this, finish all my work, read all my labs go do my thing that's like that, that resilience is kind of the opposite of what's popular these days to have like this long, drawn out morning routine and this long drawn out evening routine. It's the opposite of resilience. And a lot of times you'll see successful people, they don't have that, like they wake up. And basically they have a prioritize and execute strategy like that whatever is supposed to be done on my to do list, let's prioritize it and execute it. And then these little things don't impact that execution strategy. So I think the biggest piece of advice that I could offer here, beyond the global recommendations, avoid blue light, wear the glasses, have a deep breathing routine, perhaps get involved in meditation, block out any light in the room, if it's possible, have it be a cold room, like a lot of things, there's probably a 15 things I could rattle off. But none of which more important than don't make it dependent upon a singular environment or a bunch of things. And that's why I love a simple breathing routine. Because you can take that with you anywhere you take your lungs, which is very convenient. And it's something that makes you more resilient for those away games when it really matters.
Tim DiFrancesco 1:09:00
Yeah, that's such a good point. And it is those things that are regardless of the environment that are easy to make a really and the shorter the routine, the better, right? Because if you have this, like you said, this big, long list, and I have to do all the 29 things that this article said was we're all things that can help you fall asleep and I feel like I have to eventually just say, Well, I can't do all those tonight. Screw it. And you just start throwing the whole list out the window. But it is things like if you have if I mean you could do stretching, laying on your back anywhere, if you have a floor, you can do breathing. You can do certain things like you said that don't require the perfect bed or the bed that always is the one that you find yourself to sleep in perfectly or oh, well every time you're on the road, you're not going to have that you're, you know and so there are those things that's a really, really powerful way to Look at it. And that in a way that empowers and creates and promotes resilience versus the all the other ways and having us frame it that way was really helpful for me because I think you can get in this sort of gadget or environment specific and focused process that is, I have to have this, I have to have that, oh, well, this, I don't have the food that I like to eat at that time, or whatever it is. And all of a sudden, those are things that you aren't going to have in every single place that you're trying to fall asleep in. So I really, really love how you put that down. This has just been so incredible. And I we have one famous last question. This is the basketball strong podcast. So tell us in your opinion, what it means to you to be basketball strong, you can answer that from the technical side, you can answer that from a more emotional spiritual side. Anything that comes to gut heart mind.
Dan Garner 1:11:06
To become basketball strong is to become resilient. I think that you know, just piggybacking off of what we just said, if you talk to Kobe like hey, how do you feel today? Fine. If you talk to Michael Jordan Hey, man, so is are you good? Are you gonna play well today? No, I didn't get to do my morning routine. I know. He's gonna be fine. He's gonna go out there with a flu he's gonna have a temperature of 100 and whatever like the stories are insane if some of these guys you know what that is. That's resilience. That's true basketball strength.
1:11:34
Love that underline it,
Tim DiFrancesco 1:11:36
put it on a t shirt. Let's go baby. Mad so so good. Tell people where they can follow where they can learn more about what you're doing and and and get get their get exposure to I get access to it.
Dan Garner 1:11:49
The easiest place is just Instagram. I post pretty much everything there and the link in the bio has all that good stuff. So just go to at Dan Garner nutrition on Instagram. And that's where
Tim DiFrancesco 1:12:00
I'm at. Love it. Thanks so much, Dan. Thank you.
Dan Garner 1:12:04
Thank you guys.
