Alex McLean: Turning Down Julliard for a Life in Basketball and Leadership in the NBA

Alex McClean  00:07

think is hard. It's not hard. You know? But are you is your character made to up the ante for yourself constantly or be able to have that kind of dialogue with yourself to know when like, you know, excuse my language and you're acting like a bitch like yourself excuse it we all battle with that every day that's human nature that's life. And now I'm preparing you for success is going to carry over basketball because you play basketball. But guess what? Most people don't make it past 32 Anyway, so now you got the next 40 years. Can you develop that same mentality same work ethic now you got lifelong success.

Tim DiFrancesco  00:45

Hello, and welcome to today's episode of the basketball strong Podcast. I'm Tim DeFrancesco, former LA Lakers strength and conditioning coach and Doctor of Physical Therapy, and I'm here with my co host, Emmy nominated writer and author Phil white. This podcast is not just for basketball junkies, it's for anyone who loves to hear the human stories behind great people, while learning the science behind preparing your body for the court and high performance. Today's guest is Alex McLean. Imagine being a music prodigy and turning down opportunities to go to elite music institutions such as Juilliard to follow your love and passion for the game of basketball and turn that into a career of coaching, leadership and servanthood within the NBA. Well, that's Alex. And I cannot wait for you to hear the details of his story and what led him to where he's at today. You can follow Alex on Instagram at Alex McLean. bball that's at a l e XMCLEAN. BB all. Let's get into the conversation. Alex, I'm trying to figure out I need you to kind of put this together for me. How does a musical prodigy with potential opportunities go to Juilliard ended up dominating the basketball courts at Liberty University.

Alex McClean  02:08

Man I think it's just you know, a gift from God, to be honest with you. You know, I was gifted really young for music. God gave me that gift. But I always had a love for basketball. And really, I have a passion for hard work. So I love you, man, it probably would have been an easier route for me to go music as far as transitionally. But you know, you got to follow your passion. Gotta follow your heart. You know, I firmly stand on you got to follow the road that brings you fulfillment. Wow. Wow.

Phil White  02:37

Yeah. And TD is not kidding, when he said you obviously had a gift for this early I mean, piano, drums, cello, and then performing bass and probably some of the others to just talk a little bit about what you know, there's just this natural God given talent, as you said, and just what that looked like growing up with this musical gift.

Alex McClean  02:57

Well, for me, like music was pretty prevalent in my house. I'm from New York, you get a good mix of different backgrounds, different genres. But, you know, I started out on the cello. And then as I grew, I was always kind of a bigger kid, heavier kid, you know, they put me on like, the upright bass, and everything was music kind of correlate. So once you learn how to play piano, you learn the left and the right hand, you learned how to read music on both sides. And then you know, you start to put the pieces together. It's like a, like a domino effect. So for me, you know, I would just start with the bass and I play piano and I picked up the guitar and I start messing around with the drums for I knew it, man, I had this little room, but I had all these instruments in there. And I should just, you know, get busy man. I loved it. But the thing was, is I saw a lot of success early. But I didn't put in nearly the work that I did for like everything else in my life. It just a little easier. And I loved it. But it was more of a hobby than wanting to be a career for

Tim DiFrancesco  03:48

me. Wow. So then at some point, was it sort of neck and neck and then basketball started to sort of consume you more? Or what are some of the other things that you were doing in those times in addition to music and basketball?

Alex McClean  04:02

So I love basketball, but I never played organized. So I actually started playing you know, when I turned 18 years old. What organized basketball? Yeah, I got I got a weird story. So I dabbled in sports and you do like youth stuff, but like not anything competitive. I didn't play any high school. Until you know, I'll turn 18 and I ended up going to a division three Junior College. So it's the lowest possible you can go to employment grown man, some guys are 28 Some guys are 24 There's no rules. You know, and I had a good a good array of full rights for music to a lot of different schools if I wanted to do that. But man, it's just like, at the end of the day, it's it was one of those things where like, when I kind of convene with my people, they were just they thought I was crazy. They were like that doesn't make any sense. You know, I was a heavier kid. I wasn't athletic. I literally started from scratch. It was one of those things but you know, I paid my way. I did a year Junior College Division Three level that I did another year at junior college at Division Three level, then I took almost a full year off just to work out. And then finally I started to become the guy that's like, if somebody got kicked off or released from a division one team, they'd come look at me try to fill me in real quick but fill the scholarship. So it just turned out like I had a semester where teams are just come in, I was just working out for division one schools and finally I found the right fit. And, you know, the rest rest went on a pretty nice trajectory for a while.

Tim DiFrancesco  05:24

Wow. So what go back to the first JUCO experience and paint a little picture there of did you get there and and just kind of took it in stride and said, Hey, I'm new at this, but this is gonna be fun. I'm gonna give it a go. Or was it like, what did I just do?

Alex McClean  05:44

I was tough man. So but my two CO was on the border of Queens. So we had a lot of guys from from Brooklyn and Manhattan guys from Long Island. So you're already in that environment of a lot of guys at a lower level trying to make it their belief systems and their selves are very high. And there is some talent at that level as well. You know, guys that I can go on, and I wasn't very good. And I was big. I was about 6667 I was still growing a little bit. So you step on it initially, you know, you wanted a bigger guys on a team, but you can't play. And then when you got to deal with New York, and if people know she Boulder, New York, New York, you're gonna know right away, you know, tonight, you're gonna be dealing with a lot of self conscious issues, a lot of things that you're gonna have to overcome just from a mental battle outside of just where you are from a skill development place. So, you know, it was tough, man, because I wasn't good. I wasn't planned. You know what I mean? I was coming off the bench. I'd have a game where you show a little life, but I was struggling, man, it was tough. Yeah. Wow.

Tim DiFrancesco  06:41

Is there any stories you think back to where it was? Like that was? That was a tipping point. I mean, you pulled up your bootstraps, and you kept going, but you could have gone the other way real quick and just dropped it?

Alex McClean  06:51

Man. It was tough. It was you know, I was dating a girl and she played lacrosse. Um, and it was it turned out that she played she was an all American and lacrosse, you know, the story transforms later, we ended up you know, okay. Wow, my wife, but okay. Yeah. She came back from a game. And she was like, Hey, how'd you do? That? did pretty well, I got some minutes, you know, I had like seven points, fibrosis, oh, it's really good. It's really good, how'd you do? She's like, I had nine goals and six assists. And she had more goals. And I have points. And we're talking about basketball and lacrosse. If I'm on the right thing, so, you know, it was like little innuendos like that, you know what I mean? So

Phil White  07:36

that's amazing. You mentioned Elliot, though, the power of having your family around. And as you said, your people, both, you know, from, from the time that you work in midway through all of your musical development to as TD said, there's this fork in the road, and you decide to take it, how important was it to have those supporters around you to, to encourage you and challenge you.

Alex McClean  07:58

I mean, it's important, but like, at the end of the day, when you go a path of what people didn't have in their mind laid out for you, you actually get a little bit more resistance, and you get support from the, in the beginning stages of it. So it's kind of like, you know, the work has to always come before the belief. So if you're going to put the work and later on down the line, people who believe in you, you'll start believing in yourself. But in the very beginning, it's a journey on your own and you have to overcome those battles with yourself. And that people see a little potential see, like, you know, what it is, people call people bandwagon people for a reason. And unfortunately, and it's not a knock, it can happen in your own family, but people that are close to you, and they don't mean to do it. But that's kind of how it goes, they see a little success, and then they start believing in you a little bit more. But like that initial step, man, that's an individual piece that you got to overcome, you know,

Phil White  08:50

well, I guess that manifests itself maybe in some some late nights in the gyms and some weight room sessions on your own talk a little bit about that solo grind

Alex McClean  08:59

is Every day when you're bad, you’ve got to grind, you know, because, like, you're gonna put in a lot of work for a long time and you're not even going to reap the benefits from like, seeing a little bit of success standpoint. So you really got a knockout, knockout it you know, it became to the point where, you know, like that 50 cent arm dropped, get rich or die trying I remember like, I was playing that straight through for like a year straight. He had his shirt off, and he was all cut up and, and I was like, Man, I want to get in shape like that. And you start to develop that work ethic. Sometimes an insecurity will help you develop a work ethic. I'm in the gym, and I'm playing basketball and I was very, very fortunate that I found a trainer in New York because actually, Kyle coos Miss trainer as well in the last year. And man, he took me under his wing and he trained me for free for a long time. It really helped me get better.

Tim DiFrancesco  09:50

Amazing. So I'm putting myself into the story a little bit as I tried to picture what you were going through. You're on an island out there kind of feeling like not all the full support crew that you grew up with is all in on this path. Now, your theme song 50 cent trying to just concoct motivation and keep you on the path your girlfriend at the time score more goals and your score and points. I mean, what what was the? What was the thing though, that you kept just sort of saying, like, just just keep at it? I mean, what was that was that somebody that instilled something in you that you can think of back way before this? Was that just something you have? What was that voice? And where did that come from?

Alex McClean  10:31

Man, it's just like a love for the game. It's just something I wanted to do my whole life when I was a kid, if you actually want us to do I want to be in the NBA like, so that's just something you grow up with that love and that passion for and that's kind of the, the voice in the back of your head. And I had a cousin named Garnett Thompson. And he's kind of the first in my area. And he went to Providence and he played a little bit in the NBA played a lot of years overseas. So, you know, I kind of started shadowing him a little bit. And then you know, then I started develop, you get, you start to get a little crew behind you guys, you work out with guys, you're in the grind with every day, and then you start stacking those days. And then it becomes you know, routine, and then you start believing so, you know, initially Yeah, you're kind of right. But you know, once you get rolling, man, it's like a snowball effect. You know? Yeah. And then

Tim DiFrancesco  11:17

you mentioned. Right, right. And you mentioned haters, doubters Was there ever this thing where you went into it at turned into sort of proven wrong type of mode

Alex McClean  11:28

100% Man, because you got to think like I'm playing in New York, and New York is rough, these fools are verbal, that you know, you're and then I'm playing in St. Paul circuit, and it's thinking this guy's on the mic. So you're getting ripped, you know, killed, but you get to a point where there's a lot of drives home, especially when you're playing in Harlem with a boss you got to drive with, you got to our think about college, what happened where it all, you know, then you get back and you log in. And finally it was like, after like two or three summers then in my mind said, man, like when it clicked off us, I'm going on a revenge tour. And then when I came back, like that third summer, summer, playing everything and tried to get MVPs and win, and then I started to get a little name, and then you know, things got better from there. But you know, 100% trying to prove people wrong 100% Talk to him,

Phil White  12:15

was there a moment for it, when it when it just crystallized for you, when all the hard work the unseen hours, everything you're doing behind the scenes that people don't even notice or realize or acknowledge where it was maybe, and maybe it wasn't this lightning bolt from the sky moment, but just the crystallization of okay, this is finally starting to pay off is this is going to work,

Alex McClean  12:39

I think you start to feel the physical results. First, you see your body change, you feel yourself becoming in better shape. So, you know, your self esteem goes up, you start to feel a little bit more confident. And then it translates, you know, then I had a breakthrough game, my second year junior college and I had pretty good numbers, I don't remember but like 30s, and, you know, double digit rebounds. And then, you know, you start to develop that belief a little bit more. But it wasn't really a breakthrough. Because like, the thing I've noticed, like throughout this journey with basketball is that like, you know, your head is down for so long. You rarely get to like, sit back and look and go. And like kind of put together like small victories for yourself. Because you're just always thinking about the next thing like unfortunately, like this is one of the most transactional businesses. So you got to be constantly performing and over performing and producing at such a level that like because the demand is so high, you know, you're stacking, you're getting better and better. But you're not really telling yourself you're not really looking back, like hey, I remember when I was back there, because you're always constantly chasing the next thing was kind of like, statistically and maybe physically you feel the rewards. And that gives you stuff but it took a long time for me to go man like you know, you accomplish something, you know, because you're just chasing the next person to the next thing that you know what I mean?

Tim DiFrancesco  13:53

Yeah, yeah, that's, that makes a lot of sense. And that's also super intense to be in that tunnel, just like you said, just kind of like never even feeling like you have the time to look back on it. How do you look back on when you then level up? And it feels like go to that next level? And And I'm curious if it felt like a different level when you arrive on campus at Liberty and then sort of figure out that step?

Alex McClean  14:21

Yeah. So I had it started that actually signed a letter of intent to go to Missouri. And then you know, they were it was balanced to me and a kid that was an eligible and ended up figuring out his eligibility. And then Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah, I had some good like, I had some bigger offers like Cincinnati and Missouri night and I signed up, man, I'm going and you know, people hate he's not going to do well there. But like, and then that happened. And I'm telling everybody, I'm getting ready to go. I'm talking like I'm about to leave in three days. And then they renamed and I was like, No, oh, this is crazy. So like, This is August and I'm like, I don't have a home. So I had to take that semester off. And that's when I started working with Jerry Powell. And then that's what I was like It's not so much about getting division one, it's about finding the right fit as well. And then when Liberty came, I realized it was the right fit for more reasons than I anticipated from the beginning.

Tim DiFrancesco  15:10

But that was a whole year off just just,

Alex McClean  15:12

I transferred in I registered as I transferred in in January. So I had a semester off, I was just working out and, and in that kind of purgatory, you know, you're like, Man, this may not work out like I thought it was gonna happen. The worst days when you tell somebody this what you're doing, and then you come back next week, and you're still home. Like, obviously, you guys are looking at me, like, Come on, man. Like you've been going there anyway. So you know, we got to deal with that battle. So then, you know, working out became more intense. And there were some days where it's hard to get up like, like, man, what am I doing this for? You know, you start to get that doubt. But then you got to you got to flip that out quick. And you got to turn that around and motivation quick. So

Tim DiFrancesco  15:50

And was it coach Powell? Is that who you said that that was?

Alex McClean  15:54

Jerry Powell? Yep. He's easy. He's a pretty well known basketball trainer out in New York. He works with a lot of pros. He works with Kyle and man, he's like an intense student, especially back then he was younger, like he was like all of it on the dog mentality, too. So you know, that really helped me. So I lived in the gym after that it was on after that.

Tim DiFrancesco  16:12

Right? It sounds like he did more for you than just the sets, the reps and the program, the right exercises.

Alex McClean  16:17

It was all mental math, because he because when I first went in to work out with him, he was doing a bunch of pre draft workouts and guys getting ready to leave. And he had a ton of guys that were going pro lon lottery picks and he walked in. And he kind of knew me from Rob Lowe. He said, No, you're not going to work out today. You just watch to see if this is a place you want to be, you know, me, me, let me work out. So I'll sit in Washington. So I came back the next day, hey, I came in. He was like, man your age. Just get out of here, man. You're not ready to play. But it was like one of those things where I just kept coming back, coming back, coming back coming back to the point like, you know, then I became the guy like, as far as like, you know, he wasn't gonna break me in the workout to where we were just like, we're battling. You know, I tried to wear him out like he tried to wear me out.

Tim DiFrancesco  16:59

Oh, man, I'm ready to go. Just listen to that.

Alex McClean  17:02

Yeah, so it was good man. So I was ready when Liberty came and I worked out for them. And then they will offer me a scholarship and then that January, transferred and I redshirted that year. And I was able to get a spring semester under my belt just to get acclimated.

Phil White  17:17

You mentioned how it started to become clear. Some of the other reasons why this this fit with Liberty was meant to be and why this ended up being the right place for you. What were some of those things?

Alex McClean  17:28

Um, well, the structure so it's much more of a loose campus now. And they the basketball programs really developed they've had a lot of NCAA runs. But when I first got there as a Christian school, so it's gonna be a cool story later as we get into it, but it's Oh, and I, you know, I was I believed in God and those kinds of things, but I didn't come from that kind of environment and that kind of background. So I was going to play basketball. And you know, when you get there, you’ve got to go to church. It's called convocation three days a week, and you can't wear earrings. You can't wear hats. I'm from New York, man. So I'm coming in change earrings and all that stuff. You know, this is that era in the mid 2000s. So know, if you wore these kinds of things, you will get fines and they called reparations, or perhaps man so like, you know, a month in I got like $1,000 worth of fines. You can't curse you couldn't do this. You couldn't do that. So now before I got there, I was already kicked out I didn't have eyes and then you know, luckily then like you know, one of the one of the top guys at Liberty took me under his wing, we got a new coaching staff, and then I was starting.  you know, they started talking to me I started to believe and I became a believer you know, I started to really accepted the religion piece and but that structure is really what I needed. I work at it anywhere else. So I didn't have the structure. But if I was allowed to be a loose cannon, I'd have been just your typical New York guy that couldn't hold it together. You know what I mean? Right and didn't make it so that structure even though it was tough is exactly what I needed. That was the only place I could have gone to

Tim DiFrancesco  19:00

talk about fit. Did you Did you hit the cord running? I mean, did you do your thing right away? Or what was that level works

Alex McClean  19:06

like that man. Talk to us your red shirt so you're coming in and your transfer so you got that pressure on you got two years to make it happen. You got the New York you got the JUCO tag on you gIucose that headcase you know what I mean? So guys are already looking at me crazy. And then I got to battle for spot. You know what guys that already existing that are there. I wasn't coming into a young team and I wasn't given a spot. So you know, I had that semester and it was rough. But when I came back from my junior year, it was all man like I was I was in kill mode, you know, like three or four games and out of 40 points when he rebound game. Like, I wasn't playing around. I brought I brought a toughness and attitude because I had two years and this is all I have, like, that was it. I went all in on basketball a long time ago, so there was no plan B It was double and triple down on yourself. You know what I mean? Yes, sir. Yeah, that was kind of the game but yeah, you know, over time. On the success started coming there, I started, you know, getting some good accolades and it started stacking, I got ready prepared for my senior year, which went really well. So,

Phil White  20:09

we arguably one of the reasons if not the main reason we're talking today is our good friend, Henry Pereira, our mutual friend, and I think was our third episode and told one of the most powerful stories anyone's ever gonna hear. So if you're listening, you haven't heard that you need to so go check it but talk a little bit about your relationship with Henry and the rest of the staff and how that really helped develop you maybe as much off the court as on,

Alex McClean  20:35

right. So hand, the cool part about when I met when I actually met hand, when I retired from playing professional, and I didn't even know I was gonna retired. And so when my junior year I had a staff and the next year, Richard Mackay and his staff came over they were previously at UVA, and this is the same staff that Han was with later on down the road. At this time when I was playing, I think he was still with Nike. And so I played for Richie McKay, my senior year. And then, you know, I ended up I had a long career overseas, I played nine years, I tore both my Achilles and I was, I taught my second Achilles on my right leg. And then one of the guys they came back, so Richard McCain, and his staff were there when I was there, then they left and they went to UVA, and then they came back.

 And when they came back, they said, hey, you know, it'd be good for you to be around the guys what you rehab. If you want to be a GA, you know, you can come back at your masters. I said, Cool, man, I'm gonna do that. Come back, get my Master's dabble into coaching, starting in about maybe something post career. And while I rehab, you know what I mean? I'll get my masters and I'll build. And then I'm at hand. So like, the first day we're in, and I'm Hannah, you guys know him, you talk to him. He he's in incredible shape. He's Yeah, he's in the gym. He's wicked smart. He's crazy artistic, the cool thing is his hand controls is super tight. It's crazy. Music. So we connected on a bunch of different levels outside of just working out, but working the gel that put us together. 

So as I'm grinding my hand, and I'm kind of seeing his impact, I think he's in year, two over there, liberty. And I've seen his impact with the guys me and him started, you know, we got a good bond. So we're working, I'm doing the skill development with the guys. He's doing the strength stuff. So we have a lot of synergy amongst us. And then man, I finally got healthy again. And I hadn't I had a really big contract. So when I got hurt, my last year was, I was making the most money in my career. And then after the rehab actually got, you know, one of the biggest contracts in my career, where was that? And that was good to go back to China, China, okay, pretty lucrative place to play when you are, you know, you're playing overseas. And, you know, I was at that turning point, while I just, I just was getting ready to turn 39 years in to a torn Achilles. And, and it's like, man, you know, like, what, what are you getting called to do? So now, 10 years later, I'm in the same situation with 12 years that I'm the same situation I was with music and basketball. 

Now, basketball and coaching. And it was crazy, because I never in a million years thought I would like want to be into coaching. And, and I ended up turning down that contract. And I stayed on as a GA, so I turned down, you know, a pretty big, pretty big lump sum of money, I would say probably about a 1,000th of what I was making that as a jasmine $800 a month. For sure. You know, I'm trying to be $1,000 a month. So whatever it was, and, and I did it, man, I double down, triple down again. And I was like, Hey, I think I just got to stay here and just start thinking about the future because because basketball is great. But it's a small window. And we heard I was afraid in it. The hardest part for me was I wanted to come back again, like that hadn't gone. And I told my kids, I came back and I did it. And I told my kids again came back,

Tim DiFrancesco  23:48

revenge two or part two is what you're thinking, part two,

Alex McClean  23:51

but you know, a force that had that battle. And the worst part is is is when you can still play and you have another opportunity. Like it's an everyday battle because still, I could go get paid. I don't have to struggle like you know what I mean? I don't have to have any worries. It's a big ego piece because you identify with being a basketball player. You know, I want to be a basketball player. But I never knew my journey was never to be a basketball player. It was to help people become better basketball players or become better people. Because my journey was all about hard work. It wasn't about trying to become a professional basketball player because even when I gave music up to play in college in my mind, I wasn't chasing to become professional. I didn't believe I could play professional Tom I didn't believe I could play division one at that time when I first made that decision. I was just trying to see where it could go. So the journey the destination was never professional basketball so I achieved something that I didn't already plan I had over Excel like over overshot my expectations, right picking up a basketball four years later, signing a pro contract to do it. So that's what I tell myself man, like, it's on to the next thing like what else can we do? And then from there on out, I made the decision to stay as a GA. And then like three weeks later, I got a call from Tommy shepherd the GM at wizards. And, you know, it was overnight

Tim DiFrancesco  25:09

history from there, which we'll get into. But one of the things, the common denominators I keep hearing you say is you just love the hard work the work of it. Where did that appreciation and ability to find joy? And just the effort, not the result? Where did that come from? I mean, you just hard to say you just have it or was there a person at a young age that instilled something in you there?

Alex McClean  25:34

I think a lot of people instill things, I mean, well, but like, I grew up with a lot of pain and a lot of struggle, a lot of things going on. So I didn't know what at the time, like, I was always searching for outlets, and music was one of those outlets. But like, it's even like today's day, like, I don't want to say like demons, but like, every day, I have to, I have to grind, I have to put out like a maximum outputs, I have to get rid of something that I'm always holding on to, you know, I mean, whether it's like a complacency or it's like a fear of, you know, like a FOMO, or not getting better or insecurity or whatever it is, it's like, I'm not the same guy, if I don't, if I don't work out or do something physical as far as like, no, like, really do something. So, you know, you're motivated because of circumstances, like when you grow up, or when I grew up, I didn't grow up with any money, you know, I didn't have anything. So like, the financial rewards of it, like just the point of being a kid that like, you know, you want to be cool, you want to get girls you want to fit in, you want to have success, you wanna be popular, all those things, it becomes like this melting pot, and then you develop this persona, or whatever this thing is that you want to call it. So like, that's really what it was, like, I gotta feed the beast of of, you know, it's like fighting complacency. So I have this thing that I have to, I have to empty the tank every day. So it's not even it was never about basketball, it was really just about how do I empty that tank every day. And I didn't figure that out to like, 3233 34. Like, that. That's what it was, you know what I mean?

Tim DiFrancesco  27:01

Right? The effort, as you say, the empty the tank was the medicine. Yeah,

Alex McClean  27:06

the pain was the motivator. For me, I had a lot of pain in my life, I had a lot of good moments, it's not to take away but you know, you want to achieve something when you come from a place where it's very hard, and there's a lot of poverty, and I was around a lot of drugs as a kid, and you know, a lot of those things. You know, that that was prevalent in my household? So, you know, you want to overcome these kinds of things, by any means necessary. You know, I mean, wow.

Phil White  27:35

Yeah, so, that's already powerful. Where did the you mentioned, you know, kind of come into a deeper level of conviction, a deeper level of faith, some point in your liberty journey? Where did that start to play into what came next? As you're starting to think about? Okay, am I going to try to continue this basketball thing and play pro? And just how is that that kind of, to rewind to that stage where liberty is starting to wind down little bit, and there's this world of opportunity, and there's many more crossroads in front of you now? How did that start to shape what came next for you?

Alex McClean  28:10

Ah, I mean, you know, like, God's gonna open the doors I'm not you know, what you believe when you feel something, somebody talks to you, you have almost a spiritual feeling in in tune as to what's going on and your intuition or take over, some people call it intuition, God talking to whatever you feel, but there's always there's something out there, that's going to guide you in the right direction, that if you if you can kind of clear your headspace and be able to accept the information. So that's what it was for me, like, once I hit I call it, I get that feeling of God tells me something, you know, I'm a father, I'm a father, where's my heart to do it. So, you know, that was the next step. And then even if you don't know what's going to come, it comes like, like, you're going to make a decision not based on, like, what you're given the opportunity, you're given, I made decisions based on how I felt what I thought was the right thing to do, then the opportunities came and manifested, because of that, I knew I wanted to be successful, I just didn't know and which route is gonna go every time I made these decisions to kind of be at a crossroads and go a different direction. So once I made that decision to retire, um, you know, I had opportunity, I got offered a coach in the NBA, you know, again, at the lowest level you could possibly go to for the lowest pay, but the answer is always yes. Because that opportunity is, it doesn't come and my life formula is built on that. It's not about, you know, this undeserving of this or that. It's like, Hey, this is division three Junior College all over again, I'm gonna walk into the NBA, I'm gonna start at $40,000 a year and I'm gonna do whatever it is that I need to do to carve out the next niche.

Tim DiFrancesco  29:46

So did it before you do it again. That's, yeah, so in terms of, I mean, I admire your ability as I'm understanding it, and I'm getting to know you right now to be able to Follow your gut on that. Because I mean, look, you had a bag of money waiting for you in China. And you said, this isn't what my gut what my heart says. And you sort of hit the restart. Yeah, you made you have you got the call from Tommy Shepherd and ended up to pay off, but you didn't know that call was coming. And when it did, like you said, it was still a start over, because you had to then go to the bottom of the ladder and work your way up. It's really incredible to hear that and I think, you know, huge tribute and and and admiration that that that I have just hearing this. But so so you get to the pros now. And you've now you've got to sort of pretty quickly shift gears and say, Okay, now this is the new thing. I'm done with the pro career, I'm not playing from a planning standpoint in ways your pro career is over. But now you have to transition it over into that thing that you said you were sort of put on this earth for is to teach people this game and teach people to find the joy in it. And what was that like when you step into that arena at that level?

Alex McClean  31:07

Oh, man, it's it's a different, it's a different arena. I had some like snips at the NBA when I played. But this is a whole different love, you're looking at things to a totally different lens. And especially like the first thing Tom asked me was like, you don't plan like, because you're a coach now, like, can't be a player and a coach like you. This is what it is. And you know, you deal with those battles. But my first job was we didn't have a G league team at the time. So I was just like a G league assignment coach. So if we had, that's when the two ways the first year the two ways. So we'd have the guys on a two way and they would get assigned to another team that had a G league team was my job to go with them. 

So I started out working with, you know, the lowest guys on the chain, which is great, because that's what I come from. But that foundation of, you know, I don't have a model of like a vet, or people or to be around like, I'm doing something new, that's never been done as teams, I have a G league team, you know, it's the first year the two ways the first year of all these things. So it's like there's a lot of trial and error and trying to figure it out. But then it also was like, it's the same situation like, that's the only way I would have had success is being in that role. 

It was the same like we talked about like Liberty was the only place for me is that that's where I learned development, the relational piece and how important that relational piece is that it's going to translate to basketball because everybody's got a strong basketball mind and knows the game. And we all say the same things. But like coaching is a transfer of energy. So that's what it's really about. Two people can say the same thing. But the impact could be completely different. And a lot of the impact and the trust that you could have on the players based upon their relationship, if you have a good relationship with them, and they trust you, you will be able to deliver the information and in turn, they probably work harder for you than they will for somebody else because they trust you and they value that relationship. So that was the jewel that I picked up early on. And then it just became to develop and hone and that's what helped me kind of move up the ranks in the NBA more than like me being some crazy basketball mind or I, I have all this these skills where everybody can do skill development, everybody's got a certain skill set. But like I know how to work hard and know how to build relationships. And then from there, you start to carve a niche. So that's what so

Tim DiFrancesco  33:20

yeah, I love that I get the hard work piece but what what crack open a little bit for me the relationship build piece because I want to know how you do that at such a high level. I mean, for example, and either a player that stands out for you where you you forge that connection you think back to and I'm sure you do it day in day out now but what are the things that happen day to day day in day out at the NBA level that you get a chance to impact and how you take advantage of that at in your way.

Alex McClean  33:51

Um, well so the gift and the curse was this and I never realized that retiring young with the ability to still play was good for for this reason that I still was I still could identify with the culture I'm in the same age demographic as the guys I'm with and the young guys I'm a little bit older so I have some life experience I can help them but I'm still in the mix. Like so I can relate to them better than unfortunately somebody a little bit older maybe not from the same you know, same ethnicity or the same background culture whatever it is, but I can identify with these guys because I'm still like you You know what I just had different roles. Now you know what you have to become a master off and I don't want to say like I don't want to say undercover cop because like what I do is genuine like I don't I'm not like a play both sides but you have to master the line because you have the relationship and the trust from a player. But you also work for the organization, you know, players come and go. So you have to figure out how to how to be genuine and loyal and serve and support both sides of it and also bridge the gap emerges. So you got the most successful organization and the player can have the most Successful their career. So, you know, as I developed that to the two ways and stuff, you know, the MBA is weird, and life is not really the MBA, but anything you do, you're given like something small, sometimes you may have a 10 or 22nd window, where it's, it's gonna change everything for you, you gotta be ready to go. Like, training is like life training everything you do like me empty and take his life training, because when the opportunity comes, you got to be prepared, if you're not prepared, you lose it and change the trajectory of your life. So, you know, I was coming back, I'm going into my third year, and John Wall, he's coming from injuries and, you know, their senior audience staff and people work with other people, you know, and they were like, Alex, you can just give him some quick to warm up like a ball handling drills, some, and I gave him some, and we connected. And after that it was on like, that was my gosh, so you talked about like, one person is John Wall. Like, if there's one person in the NBA and I met him, I have like a, you know, a much, much much. We have a very deep relationship. But if there's one person I could, like, Thanks for my career as a player, John Wall, he, he showed me everything from like, every level, as far as you know what this life is about, you know, at the time, he's at the top of his game, and I got with him, he's coming off the, you know, his best run of his career where he got the supermax deal where he's got the deep run in the playoffs. I'm getting like, primo Jawwad, but he's hurt, but like, what can we do? And man, since that day, me and him are all man. So I owe that dude, everything, he truly helped me tremendously. It's unreal, like, he knows that we have a deep breath. So that's probably the one person I could say, like, without a shadow of a doubt. He's the one for me, that helped me.

Tim DiFrancesco  36:44

And and you were ready, though, like you said, when you got that moment to give him something, you gave him everything you had available at that moment and gave it to him in a way I have to imagine where, like you said, anybody could give him a similar ball, dribble, dribble drill or whatever. But in the way that you present it and and how it comes from you, it can just be different if you care about it that much if you put into and the preparation and and, you know, it is something that you believe in so deeply, it just, it hits different.

Alex McClean  37:17

Yeah, totally different. This is always about the impact. So you know, we locked in, and then later on, it was my role for him. And his life was similar to me like so right. When we started being able to work together. All he tore his Achilles. So it's like, oh, like, oh, you know, but what I know, I told him, I left Achilles, you've been through, I got four screws and each like, you're gonna be down. But one thing I am I know I'm an expert at is coming back from that. And when you do it overseas, rather than Lee, there's no guarantee contracts overseas. So you get home the money stops, you got to be able to you got to deal with a bunch of different battles. So when he tore his Achilles like, then we locked all the way in while we're on the roll, we'd like to add a job wall bag, kind of like. So we're on a roll out of bag just for all his stuff, the stuff I thought he would need, because Because one thing about this and like we talked about the relationships and the people like you got to you got to know what people need. Like what makes them tick to like, not every guy's personality is different, every guy works the same, they might need a specific sock they might need. And it's not that like that, you just you want to make the environment so clear and know like, Hey, I'm about whatever you need to help you get to where you need to go. And that level of preparation for everything, you know, will help expand the relationship and get the body of work you need. And on top of that, like NBA players or professional BS sniffers, so you can't talk about it and not be about it, you got to be about it. Especially when you get to the top of them. Or you could get it over sometimes some of the younger guys on college you can and it's not a disrespect, you could talk a good game, and they'll believe it because of grinding. But in the NBA, at some point, you're going to get tested in one way or another and you better be able to practice what you preach at some capacity. So when John got hurt and COVID hit and we lived in Miami together for like eight months with Paramount like I was also in the best shape of my life. We got a lot of good. There's a lot of material out there and videos out there. That proves that like whatever he did, I did you know what I mean? And we're early grinding, diet, cardio bike, I mean, I'm a man COVID He went out and bought like 10 bikes for us and all the tools. Were going 3040 5060 mile bike rods, anything we can do to feed that beast and then you know that work ethic starts to get give and take because he started getting up earlier his work ethic changed, not that he has a great work ethic and he's a competitor but he really started to hone in on like, what's important and how to work, uh, he'll work but sometimes he didn't know how to work from a structure standpoint. So we started building his team around us and then it was on and, and I didn't know at the time you know Not that like my job was to like, get him ready for a trade. But, you know, he got in such great shape that it became a guy that they almost said was like untradable before he played the game tradable, and just from our videos that went viral from our workout videos of him killing and pick up over the summer and destroying everybody was able to make play happen, which happened, which was good, you know, the organization, something needs to happen, he was a staple, and that's my brother, and I didn't want him to go, I was, you know, I was hurt. same token, it helped get him on a trajectory he needed to be on to be established himself. And that's what this is about. My job is servanthood. That's it? How can I help you get better? You know, and when you approach it with that mindset, there is no more ego you in it together. So any guy that worked with, you know, and I got a long list of Guys and girls, I'm really deep into the girls game now. Like, I'm in the trenches with you like, we're going to do it together. I'm not going to talk but we're going to be about it. So you know that that became kind of my niche? Because that's how I came up. That's all I know. You know? I love it. Yeah.

Phil White  41:07

As Alex is talking now, TD I know you've got some laundry room stories from the D league. And you know, and then obviously having to navigate the transition from everything you had to do in the daily on to the Lakers staff and what was something specific that came to mind or bubbled up to the surface? There? Probably a lot of things, but is the one you could quickly share with us?

Tim DiFrancesco  41:29

Yeah, I mean, I think it's the pieces that Alex talked about there that sort of resonated with some of the different places in my journey that were parallel or similar places and, and, and arenas. As Alex it is that idea of, it's about the relationships that you forge. So the stuff that I did for giving players exercises in the weight room or taping their ankles as the athletic trainer and the strength coach and the travel coordinator at Bakersfield, with the Bakersfield Jam and the NBA D league. Now the G League. They appreciated that some did some didn't some more, some less. But I mean, when I'm taking a guy and I get a text, and it's like, Hey, I got nothing in my fridge in this one bedroom apartment in Bakersfield, California. What would What do I do, and I grabbed the team van and I pull up and we find a Vons that's open late night. And we're able to go grab some stuff and eat a late night snack together and shoot the shit in the van and, and then connect right then and there. That's the relationship piece. And those are some of the sort of Goosebumps stories that I got to be a part of, I'm really proud of what was able to be done in the weight room and on the athletic training side of what I was able to serve people with there. But it's, like Alex said, though, those players going on that grind at whatever level we're talking about. But it only ratchets up per level. So they have enough friction that they have to deal with everywhere else, the last thing they need from you is you not being prepared, or you're not being there for them in a way that is way beyond just me handing dumbbells playing out workouts and that kind of thing. And that's the piece that I always think back to I think of tre Johnson and I grabbed a six pack of Miller Lite, because that's all that was left in the in the lobby bar at the Motel Six in South Dakota, and going to the pool, and breaking into the pool and just talking about how tough a game that was. And you know why why coach is so hard on him and how long this journey has been for him. And then he can kind of get that stuff off his chest and just just be there with somebody, I think that's the big stuff that that I think of in my, in my parts of the journey. I'm

Alex McClean  43:47

not 100% You know, you're around these guys while you're on your family or friends. And it's like, right, little moments don't happen on the quarter in the weight room and it develops a relationship, you guys, you get a different report different feeling, you know what I mean? And, and that's where the trust level begins. And then when it's time to work, it's no brands like man, right? Or die like this is no brainer. And then you you know, everybody's everybody's new wants everybody's, you know, specific. So you start to figure out what works for what guy what helps you what helps you work better, too, because like, you know, too, it's like, you want to end the work, but you want to enjoy it too, that there's an energy like yeah, like, not everybody you work with is going to gonna make you feel fulfilled by working with them. Not that it's about you, but you're given a commitment, you got to give up a lot of time, you got to get you got to be on the call on call at anytime to be available. So it's like, ya know, if you're going to work, you want to be able to, to, to, what's the word kind of kind of release your craft be able to explore your ideas, you know what I mean? Get the data and what makes you tick. So, you know, when you have that relationship, then you will be able to unlock some doors that are special and then do something serious.

Tim DiFrancesco  44:59

Yeah. That's right. It goes both ways. I mean, there's there's fulfillment that can be had by by both sides. And it's a beautiful thing when it comes together. Alex, I'm curious because, like you said, generationally, you are right there sort of, or you started in right there with the same age, almost as many of the guys on the roster, that kind of thing. But as always happens in our life and our career, we, we separate generation a little bit from the people that are entering in from the bottom of the ladder and coming in on drafts and starting on teams in their journey. And so that every year, it gets a little bit further, even though it doesn't even seem like it in real time it is. And it just feels like to me that is not an a blocker for you to still be able to connect, but what are the things that you are finding in ways of today's 21 year old that went or 20 year old that went to one and done and, and got out of college and has come into the NBA that maybe have changed a little bit, but that you've adapted to them on or how you meet them where this generation of player is.

Alex McClean  46:13

I think it's understanding like where they are at that place. And what I do a lot, like, especially with the young guys, for me, it's like this business and you know it like you start judging early. And you never want to get in a situation where you know, you're judging a book by its cover so early that you end up having to eat your words later. So I always look at where was I at at that age as a basketball player as a man from just a mental space. And it's like, when I always look back, and I see like some of the young guys at 1921. Like at 1920. I was still in JUCO I like some of the stuff we talked about earlier. I'm like, and they're here, like I couldn't even fathom what that was what they're going through. So it's like, before, I'm quick to be like, what they can and can't do. Let me realize where I was at looking myself in a mirror. And then, you know, solution mindset, like, what could I give them to help them and help connect the dots to give them some success. And not everybody's going to make it because they have a different level of pressure. But it's the impact is to relationship and and, and mapping out what success looks like it's not dictated on how many points you score per game, or how many years you play in the NBA.

Tim DiFrancesco  47:22

Yeah, yeah, I feel like listening to you, I feel like you had an internal kind of heat seeking mechanism that you could find the places where you fit in and what it was going to take for you to stick here or get to the next level. But not all players have that. Are there things that and some of them need sort of a co pilot to say, look, here's a map, and I'm telling you this one thing, these two things are going to let you stick at this level. Because there are fringe players at every level, even the NBA that come in and it's like this, this doesn't get tightened up, this isn't going to last long for you, what are some of the things that you're having a conversation with, with with that person, that player that might need sort of a heads up or a copilot to show him that route?

Alex McClean  48:07

I mean, when you're new in town, and if you're not like a generational talent, like you're not like a situation where you're the man, tonight, you're at the bottom of the totem pole. And even if you're one of the most talented in the gym, you're at the bottom from a sheer experience standpoint alone that you don't even know, you know, what's going on from a psychological level from an emotional level from a financial level, and then just a physical level. Now you will grow man, like, how are you going to carve your niche? What are you going to be a master of and if you're willing to, to access a team, assess the team and realize, hey, I'm gonna master or be good at the things that people don't want to do, or people that aren't doing on a daily basis, you know, who are you going to mimic yourself after? Because there's, there's people, you're going to look up to you yourself, and you have your own identity, but like, are you willing to do the things that everybody else is not doing? And then can you sustain that and do that shit every single day. You know what I mean? Because there is no downtime, you can't, you can't stay the same, you can either get better, or you're going to get worse, if you did the same workout every day, you're going to get worse, like can't maintain this shit. It's you got to keep raising the bar for yourself all the time. So it's like, you know, with these younger guys mastered whatever it is you need to do to get on the floor and then as you gain that equity, as you you know, master the intangibles and get better than you get the trust and to really show what you can do. You may have things that you can do that you can show but you got to play your role at first that's everything in life like your role and then when the opportunity comes you better be ready to show what you can do you know what I mean? It's not you get the opportunity to some guys get the opportunity and they're not prepared for it to come. People swinging the angles every day this and that. You're gonna go from not playing for 20 games to you may start and COVID showed you with only 10 days. You may get opportunity but he Really think some people think that trajectory is is? I'm not the best, and maybe we'll take it a few minutes, then some people jump from not playing to starting the next day. Are you mentally prepared for that? Is the body of work that you put in behind that? Can you? Is a confidence breathe it on the body of work you have? Did you do enough work behind the scenes to be a starter tomorrow? If you haven't, you better get the fuck back in the gym and lock in, because you're not ready. And that's how life is. You know what I mean? There is no you don't sometimes you don't go from millionaires don't go from billionaires and go from 40,000 a year and an 80,000 a year and 100. Sometimes it goes from 40 to a million, a million to 100 million. Are you prepared for that? Do you think macro enough? Do you think bigger enough to be prepared for when that comes? And then do you have the work behind it to sustain when it does come? And then where do you go from there? How do you elevate it from there? How do you up the ante from there? Are you prepared to do that? And that's when you become you know, that's when you do things that that nobody anticipated? You doing?

Tim DiFrancesco  51:02

That's that's special? What what are those intangibles? Or are we think of the NBA game? What are those things that you talked about? Are you ready to do right now the things that other players aren't willing to do? What are those things? In technical terms?

Alex McClean  51:15

Here's an intangible. Can you be the first one in the gym every single day for you? That's simple. Can you get up earlier than everybody for a year? For a season? Know how hard that is? It's not about rebound and take charge and play that standard. Everybody got to do that? Can you get up early? And everybody every day? That's that's that's if you're 2021 22? Can you get up early? And can you be the first one and the last one out? People say it all the time? I told them, I'll be the first one. Can you really think about that? Can you do it every day? Not easy. I gotta go here, I want to go eat I want how many excuses you got to come per day. Now if you do that, you're ahead of the game. Ahead of the Game, now you build the equity of now I'm in here before you and I'm in here after you. So now when it's time for me to take your spot, what is it, I got the equity behind it. You know what I mean? I got the confidence behind it. It's different. If I'm playing you, I'm coming for your spot. I know I put in more work than you should. Now I'm coming in with a different mindset, a different confidence. Because they're on your team, you're also competing within a team, then you're also competing against the team. There's all these little dichotomies, these little problems that are happening, the battle which you got to compete with yourself, that compete against your teammate, you got to compete with a teammate, you got to compete against other people, you got to prove other people right or wrong. Think about your next move is so many moving pieces, the one staple got to

Tim DiFrancesco  52:33

be to work. Well, and that's the thing, right? Because that's what I love about what you said there is here's an intangible is our kid you'd be the first one in the gym every day for a year is, but that's totally in your control. And like you say, you come up with as many excuses as you want to say this, I couldn't do it on this day, or this week was really hard for me or whatever it was. But that is in your control, if you want to be honest about it and look in the mirror. And not everybody does want to do that not many people are scared to do that. It's hard. It's really hard. But that's the thing. It's and I think that some players in look, this isn't just players, this isn't just athletes, this isn't just basketball, this is any industry, any anything, if it some people just feel like it can't possibly be that easy. I mean, and it's just like I got it's got to be more complicated than that. The so and so person that I'm trying to pattern myself after there's not It couldn't have just started with that they must have been doing some secret something and some crazy this, that and having everything else that and paying for this and doing that other thing. And it's like, No, it did start with something that simple. It's just they committed to it. And they were honest without excuses.

Alex McClean  53:43

100% Because the beauty in it isn't the working out part. It's not that like you can do the same work at six o'clock and 11 o'clock, right. And it can be the same exact, you get the same output the same. But the difference is this. If you go on into my six, nobody's in there. If you go out for a run at five, six, nobody's out there. You go out on a nice day at 11. Everybody's out there. Because when you're winning is the mental battle nom on the training my mind to do things that nobody else is doing or to do things that nobody wants to do. Why don't more people work out at 11 and six, because it's not hardest to wake up and not hit snooze every day, that brass, metal first. That's the first battle, you got to get to the gym and you got to put the work in. And then the craziest part is, as I'm saying it to them, but guess what I got to do. If I'm telling you you got to do that. Somebody's got to work you out. So I got to win those battles every day with you too. And that's really because it's quitting now or that you could put somebody everybody knows you're not feeling I might not give you my best work and what I realized for me if I don't get up and workout before I start working people out, the workout suffers my when I review my body of work my product is worse than it was because I didn't I didn't hold myself to that standard. You know what I mean? So, so my formula for me, I gotta work out before the workout. So I'm already in that mode, I'm in that zone, you know what I mean? And I realized, for me, I produce way better, and I can give you I can give you more, my mind's clear, everything's open, if I do that, if I get in the car meets you there, and if I'm not prepared or ready, you don't get the same. Wow, you know, and guys know, you actually run the league, and every guy I've been with, we want to spend some time which I do everything, but you got to feel it. I'm not, I was never gifted with this, I gotta feel it, I gotta know what you're gonna do. I had to put my body through what you're putting your body through. So I can be able to really connect the dots for you. Because how do I really how can I really tell you something if I don't know what it feels like? Truly, right?

Tim DiFrancesco  55:46

That that's, I mean, that's sweat equity right there.

Alex McClean  55:51

So you know, the I think it's the little thing. So to circle back to the young guys, it's just that sometimes it's just that simple. And if it all then everything falls into

Tim DiFrancesco  56:00

place after that, and it snowballs it compounds, it just it just builds off of that

Alex McClean  56:05

compound interest. And then what coach asked you to do is not a big deal not to get up at six and doing all this, you want me to come in and play defense for me? Like it's nothing, it'd be dry. Think is hard. It's not hard. You know? But are you is your character made to up the ante for yourself constantly, or be able to have that kind of dialogue with yourself to know when like, you know, excuse my language, and you're acting like a bitch like, right? Off excusive we all battle with that every day. That's human nature. That's life. And now I'm preparing you for success is going to carry over in basketball because you play basketball. But guess what? Most people don't make it past 32. Anyway, so now you got the next 40 years, can you develop that same mentality, same work that now you got lifelong success, and now you have the ability to also pour it into somebody else. Hmm.

Phil White  56:55

It seems like another piece of this as well as just that, that hard work talks, you know, and we'll get to that. And a little bit too, that you were forced to figure out a lot of things for yourself during your early journey with the junior college route. And then also when you go overseas, and you don't have anything like the support network that these guys can get used to pretty quick in the NBA. So talk to us a little bit about those overseas assignments and those years and your how they honed your ability to problem solve, to be independent, to figure things out, and to be able to be dropped in a completely foreign place, literally, in this case, and how that set you up for what you're doing now.

Alex McClean  57:38

So it's much harder in a lot of ways. But I don't like to play like that watch overseas, and it's another country and you got easier because you make more money. And it's because the battle is the battle. Everybody's got different things that they've gone through. But like, you know, my first job was you get over there. You got to practice the next day. Don't let you get acclimated man. So like you're dealing with jetlag first second day, I overslept, because of the alarm didn't go off. $1,000 Then it's like little things like how do I unlock the stove? Like, nobody's like, I remember when I first got I was playing in Europe, like I didn't know what gas to put in the car, put the wrong gas and I didn't put diesel the car broke down. It's like all this little stuff. Like you got to figure it out, then like the first thing you start checking for is like you've mastered like, I'm gonna check with the water pressure feels like how to do this, how to do like, all these little things. Because once you get there, if you don't pick these things out, you're stuck with it. So it's like, yeah, the NBA is the same. These guys are young, they have a million people pulling out of everybody wants some form. You know, it's so transactional, if you play great, you're the best. If you think you're a piece of shit. It's like if you don't play well, like the difference in 10 points is like, and what people treat you in the scale that they're on. Think like the NSA, like, like the NIO stuff and just, you know, social media and that kind of thing. Like, anybody can say anything to you at any time. And as a kid, you're gonna read all that stuff and internalize it until you get mature enough to be like, Man, that shit doesn't matter, or you you can use it as motivation. But like all that stuff weighs on you, man. It's all text. So, you know, like, like, everybody's really got got their battles, man. It's just what's the approach? It's got to always be like solution mindset.

Tim DiFrancesco  59:21

Hold on. So you said something, I never really thought of it this way. The difference between 10 points is what you're saying there. You've got a player who's scoring 10 points a game versus the guy who's put score in 2020 won a game. It just the level is five baskets. Right? It's it maybe it's maybe it's two, maybe it's two in a couple fouls, but like, you're what you're open that open that for us.

Alex McClean  59:43

So think about like, you're trying to like think about it in all facets. Like think about the rookie, think about the guy that's you know, middle tier, the guy trying to make it think about the guy that's a max player. Think about the guy that just got back in the league, the guy's getting ready to get out of the league. So think about it in all these ways. If, then we'll say like this, I'll be the 10 point guy, you'd be the 20 point guard. And this is cool, because I never talked about this, but I already got it figured out. If I'm the 10 point guy, or 20 Point guy, I'm chasing what you do, right? So I have this, this battle with you that I'm having a ton of like, he's getting 20 that I want to be able to get 20 and all his egos involved in that, right, I need to get my shots isn't that whatever. Now you'd have 20 point that what if you go from scoring 20 A game to 10 Like, the next day, you have 10? Well, you suck, oh, he's falling off, you could be all the I don't know, he doesn't have it anymore. It's all this stuff. Now I got 10. And I just scored 20 all managed potentials to the roof. Now it's perception of what people look at you. Now I score 10, I score five more bass than you, you score five less passes than me, I have all the potential in the world and your career is going not that serious, it is that serious sometimes. So think about, you have to always play the long game. Like it's always gonna go like that. At some point, because it's all transactional man. That's why I said the work gotta come before the belief, people will believe in you, once you make it. And the minute is not going the way they stopped believing I hit on how many times he was a he don't have it anymore, you don't got it anymore. Because adversity is common in this business, you're gonna get hurt, you're going through this, you're gonna do that whatever comes, it's common. And the minute adversity hits, do not think that there's gonna be people in your corner, you got it, you go and do it. Now, it's on to the next thing. And then there's the business aspect to it, too. It's, it's a business. And if you can't produce for my business phone, see you later. Oh, and that's that piece. So it's like, think about the internal struggle that five points makes 10 points makes for somebody. Yeah, now if you string together, two or three, four games like that, or two or three, four games like that, our careers are going to totally different ways. Totally. You can make five baskets, you know, you can do any sleep your eyes because guys to make them to eyes closed, right? Situational is perception is so many things, you know, right? That's why you can't, you can't be results based, you know, you got a shot at me work based, it's got to be about the work. Because if you know you could put the work, you know, at some point, you could always get it back, you know the formula from off, I can get it back, I gotta find it. Man.

Tim DiFrancesco  1:02:15

And also the if you kind of flip the, the lens or the the point that you go in on that, that whole picture you just painted, if which I'm sure this is happening for you day in, day out when you're working with and serving that 10 Point guy. And they're, they're losing a little they've been on the grind for a long time, and they just can't crack over. And it's just not working for them. And it's like, here's why you won't need to love just just focus on the effort host focus on the work, not the result of that you're 9.7 points a game or that year 11.2 points and you think you should be at 18 or 21, or whatever. But if you fall in love with that effort that work, we're talking about five baskets or less if you're if you're an outside shooter, like, you can do that. And that, like created like getting someone through a plateau of that I have to imagine like that. That's amazing. That just blew my mind. I mean, thank you for putting it that way. That was That's incredible. You talked about you're heavily in the girls game, now you're doing stuff outside of the 15 or so roster players that you're impacting and changing lives rather than serving as you say, what are you doing there? Talk us about talk to us about that.

Alex McClean  1:03:34

I was fortunate a few years back to start my own gym in Virginia. And then you know, like, like, with everything else, it wasn't I didn't have a pursuit of anything, you know, you want to be able to have the ability to work with people. And I was fortunate that you know, some of the people I work with, you know, they had success and you know, it breeds you more people to be able to work with but I never thought I'd you know, the two girls game. And then you know, my last three years I've had, you know, every girl that's you know, I've had the number one player in the country every year and I'm very fortunate appreciate and working with men. And women are two totally different things. It's almost like and you know, in what way man it's like in a million way. So one thing girls Listen, like girls listen and tell them it's gonna be this time. They're They're there. They're early. They're waiting for you like there is no there's no fluff. Like when like girls basketball, young women's, they're not late. Then I pray without any company where no work for however long you tell them. They don't complain and they don't give themselves any out. So like, you know, I had Paige Becker's I was fortunate to be able to be with her. Right at father engine and I had Kiki rice. Wow. And she you know, and all of them, you know, as far as with the NIHL they were all trailblazers and what they do first woman sign gateway first moments Auntie, you know Steph Curry de spawn, they always big nio deals Kiki's now, the first NFL ever with Jordan Brand not that she's a woman. She's the first athlete with Jordan. I'm scrolling through Nike looking for some I see her. It's crazy, because I know men from you know, I don't look at him like that. And then I'm starting to realize the impact that they have on the game, you know, and then I got daughter, so like, our relationship is different. I'm not the same guy that I am. But like, Alright, now I can't switch up because of that. So it's, it's totally different. But yeah, so so as far as my stuff off the court, it's been a lot more youth based. A lot more I've worked for probably more women in the summer than I do men. I love it. By the way, I feel like fulfilled by like, I have great relationships with with everybody like, and then it just opens a whole new mindset because people are chasing different things. I'm so used to the NBA and those kinds of things, and their goals and their aspiration and their endgame, what they're trying to achieve, and people at that age, or even girls or even, you know, all these things, their their dream and what they're chasing, they the ceiling, you can see it right away, especially for me, like the ceiling for themselves is so low. I look at them, even like the kids. I'm like you understand, like, not that I did something great because I didn't. But like, if I can sign a professional contract and just doing this for four years, you're starting at 10. So I had 13, shown at 16 or 18. So there's no way that I can't tell you that I don't believe you can make it it's impossible eight No, I'm saying so now you got somebody that truly knows you can make it if you put in the work, all I do is give you a formula. And now we got to crack at it every day. You know what I mean? And that at that age and that mindset, now, you know, people start really developing quit because nobody, because because even and it's not a knock to anybody, like that trait like, but you got to think like, if you don't have that life experience, or at least the knowledge behind you may be just getting a kid ready to make his team or make his varsity team or make us I tell him hey, these are the goals we got a checklist of what we're trying to hit but like you could play in the NBA you could be a lottery pick, you could be an NBA I'm trying to tell you like I seen it you know what I mean? So right in start thinking like that, not that you're selling them a dream you got to this what you got to ship at year by year day by day, but it's possible and once kids don't believe it's possible there's no ceiling then you unlock and all kinds of shit. So you know I got some kids that are that are that are that are trailblazing and like and this summer I spent a lot of time with Tiki rice and the cool thing with Kiki shell UCLA. And she was Naismith Player of the Year all this stuff and she was the same for soccer completely gifted, she come work out with our MBA she likes me her KCP like they have a good relation we all worked out together like we kind of took her under the wing like to see even where she was from man to now where she's going and like the transcending the game for women I got daughters, this is impactful. This is bigger than trying to get you to this is realistic life shit. So when I when I go at them with that approach, and that kind of talk about motivation, like you're doing this shit for every girl looking up to you, my daughters look up to you, like, you don't even understand like, you're you're it for them, like you got a responsibility. And on top of that the women's game and the things that hurt us that they're going through, like you're doing something that's never going to be done. Do you know how important that is to be a person that does something that nothing has been done for a game that's been around forever? Like, you got a responsibility. So like, like, working hard. That's like, that's a mission like that. Your mental what you like what you're thinking? So it's like, how can I say like, you better think like, fucking sky's the limit, like there is no limit to what you can do. Like that's the approach. It's not like I'm the best player in the country. Like, I can be generation I could change the game for generations. And he's going to do a page beggars from talent work. We got some crazy I got crazier stories for her. She's like, on real people don't understand. She's probably the most skilled player I've ever worked with melee. She's that real and she's a dog. And I remember she was going through our first ankle surgery. And we work out on my gym. And so I share this car and she's crazy man. Like she's not like, like some of the other girls like they're all so different. But like she gets mad, she gets frustrated and she's and she's getting mad and she had a shoe just carry shoe. And it was bothering her ball. A lot did not tell him when like, you know, but it was it was because I was but um, she took the shoe off like just because her foots by the nerves come off the surgery does the workout but once you want once you off doesn't miss a shot for 45 minutes and I promise like it's not like you tell a folktale No, no, she did a workout but once you off my shoulder with my gait I said you want to be that you want to be associated manager we're gonna work out like that and, and she looked at me with it. Alright, let's get it like fuck you like let's go and on real More than five minutes once you once you didn't miss a shot, like did it not that she's that special, but she was also saying like fu to me, like, you know what I mean? Like she's a dog she's she's the most talented person I think I've worked with are incredible, like very close.

Tim DiFrancesco  1:10:18

Oh my I was gonna ask her as I say wait to find and I know what it is and I love I love that term and I could see what a mile away but I was gonna say to you, what do you mean she's a dog? And then you just told the story and there it is that that that is a dog

Alex McClean  1:10:33

and you start to understand like she's crazy. So like when we work out we don't usually use cones, but I always put a call next week. I know at some point she's gonna get mad and want to throw something around the gym. You know what I mean? So I put the little shit around I just say go ahead throw it like but it opens also like a mental reset for because some people get angry. And it's a domino effect and then that you you're you're imploding that we throw we laugh, and then we get back to work. You know? And her aides are the best friends and they're both number one players and he is completely different. She's Tammy, she's nice. She's, yeah, whatever you say do I'm gonna do it. She's the best shooter in the world are formed never changes, like looking at her. It's like, it's like trying to find like, Where's Waldo, it's not like this. Like when you mechanically look at a shot like this. You have to like, slow it down slow, because it's damn near perfect. Every time. So trying to like, help and correct that stuff is a different level of detail. You know what I mean?

Tim DiFrancesco  1:11:28

So I got a question for you though, in terms of get that somebody who has that dog in him? Can you can you give that to somebody? Or does that have to be in there?

Alex McClean  1:11:40

It's hard because I want to believe that you can do anything. Yep, there is something innately that's got to be in there and I think it comes from a point of pain there's got to be some kind of pain in us you have to prove somebody wrong and it doesn't mean you have to come from like a bad background or anything like that. But there's got to be something in you that makes you tick that way. You know what I mean? Your see it's a clear separator I think it can be developed I think you do have to have it small and I think you can you can grow it but oh I like that that people that have it you know it you know they have it but like some people have a little bit like you can be like you still soft you but you have it in you because you know why you come back every day like what is it that you come back here every day? And I think you can you can water that and not grow to know that's

Tim DiFrancesco  1:12:29

a great point. It makes me it takes me to the story I've told before about when when Kobe stopped the practice and told Mitch Kupchak. He's not practicing that every player on this whole team is soft Charmin and just basically called out the whole entire team. And I'm talking players that were NBA All Stars on that gym. And then all he was trying to do right there is to see which ones had the dog in them that we're gonna stand up and say, I'll show you right now I'm not and you know, Ronnie price stood up and they were having sort of a team huddle that that coaches weren't even in at the half court at half court and and Ronnie just was the one who stood up as I I know bitch and and I'm not soft to Charmin. And Kobe wanted to see I have to imagine Kobe wanted to see who was had had that and to your point at what level like like you said, it could be a little tiny bit in there. And then he needed to know who had that little tiny bit at least Ronnie had it in spades. But he wanted to see who had the little seed of it at least that he could then try to pull out to accomplish what he felt like that team should have accomplished that year. But man that that is just Oh, God talk about goosebumps. I want to appreciate that you're coming off a flight you got probably scouts to get ready for it everything else and go go try to get a job against the pelicans. We have one final final question. Famous final last question here. And this is the basketball strong podcast. You can answer this from a technical standpoint, from a spiritual emotional standpoint. Whatever it is, your heart gut tells you but the question is, what is it? What What to you? Does it mean to be basketball strong?

Alex McClean  1:14:17

To be basketball strong, I think for me is is man you got to embody everything that comes with the game. So you got to be able to embody hard not it's not because people say hard work. I think you got to just be able to live it like to be basketball strong, you got to live it. You know, there's got to be some sort of obsession for not obsessed with the game or obsessed with getting better or obsessed with with with being better than everybody else but also being able to lead and be able to help somebody else. And the same token, you know, you're not strong minded. You can't be a follower. You can use people motivation, and that you can use people for All for, you know, a roadmap. But you know, you gotta be human. You know, you can't follow nobody you gotta go first. Like we talked about value pricing. Kobe is not even so much like the dog, if it's in there nice like, who's gonna say it first like, Nah, fuck that right now hardest to be first like we talked about and hardest to get up early and be first How hard is it to be the first one to jump when you get challenged because you know, you jump and somebody has fallen and you start to feel a little bit more confident but like that strong to me like to be first. Wow, only one sometimes. Yeah.

Tim DiFrancesco  1:15:35

Well, I'll tell you nobody's living a more basketball strong life than you sir. And this was just pure gold. Where can people tap in? Where can they follow see what you're doing? Learn from you in terms of how to love the effort and hard work.

Alex McClean  1:15:51

I mean, you know, my Instagram, there's things up there. I don't try to go too crazy. But we have a lot of good things. My screen I was playing basketball. You know, I have a training company and the DMV, I've been fortunate enough that I have all the rights for FIBA, under 16, under 18. So I'm gonna be I'm gonna host one of the World Cups and in June for the Wow. And, you know, I just started my own Christian school this year as a six to 12 private school actually, with another partner of mine I was fortunate to be involved with so that was the kind of full circle piece as far as liberty and that stuff like now we have a school. So we're bringing in kids and we started our first basketball program for the first year this year. Like we have an actual school not like have a gym, but I have a school with like classrooms in the principal. And you know, that kind of stuff, too. So

Tim DiFrancesco  1:16:39

well, man. So can you can you open that up a little bit real quick before we before we break?

Alex McClean  1:16:45

Yeah. So I'm actually yesterday, you are literally coming up here to do a special, I think next month in the beginning of the month. So really, yeah, and that'll be on like my, my Instagram and some of the other platforms. Um, so I was looking for a second location for gym, my gym. And it was a it was an elementary school attached with a church and my partner's found it. And the pastor came to us like, Hey, man, listen, like it be great. Did you guys want to start a school? Like, do you want to continue the school, and this is in like, July like this last July. So like, I looked at my partner, you know, and I had some good people behind the scenes that found that like, you know, I was fortunate enough to be involved. And then he was like, you know, you probably need a year to school you gotta get get accredited. You gotta get you want to try to do this shit. And we opened the doors and 60 days, what 60 days, so you're allowed, you know, like 20% of your maximum capacity while you get a credit. And man, we're fortunate we fold it up, we got it. We got a we got a boys team, we had a boy. We got you know, we got 40 students. And as we're growing this thing, and building like next year, we were trying to prepare for 150 students. So that came from just trying to get another gym, and just the thing we talked about today is like why not? Right? Why not? You know, like, just jump in. And it's just complete stress. It's crazy. But it's so fulfilling is generational. It's like everything else. So when you when you quit or you have a school or the ability to do that now you're impacted launch reel. So now the message and my delivery to people and training and everything else is completely different. You know, now it's like, we talked about upping the ante. Like I gotta constantly, I gotta constantly live it too. So and you get to afford the opportunity to scholarship, a lot of kids kids from obviously, like I could truly give the opportunity that I didn't have to somebody. Yeah,

Tim DiFrancesco  1:18:40

talk about serving. Well, I think that tees up a part two when you can come back and update us on on the lives that you're changing with that. Now, this has just been absolutely incredible. Thank you so much for defining and redefining basketball strong for all of us today.

Alex McClean  1:18:59

I appreciate you guys. Thank you for the juice and the motivation. You guys are doing an incredible job and I feel really privileged and honored that you guys even thought about me to be honest. So I appreciate you.

Tim DiFrancesco  1:19:14

Thank you for joining us today. If you enjoyed today's show and we hope you did. Please give us a good review on Apple podcasts or whichever platform you listen to podcasts on. And so you never miss a weekly episode, be sure to subscribe and follow. You can find previous episodes on our show website. That's www dot basketball strong podcast.com For more basketball performance resources, and nagging injury solutions, follow me on Instagram at TD athletes edge and follow Phil at Phil white books. Until next week's episode, stay basketball strong